The Offical WFF BS Thread!

[blockmaker]

If 4wd doesn't help you make corners better then I guess all those rally racers using AWD/4WD cars to make sharp turns on the loose soil of the tracks they race are just wasting their money huh?

My wife has a jeep grand Cherokee with all wheel drive. We just had 14 inches of snow on top of an inch of ice. Way better at getting around than my silverado 4wd. First time I've drove it on snow and it is amazing.

[DeadEye_Dan]

They are talking about reclassifying XM855 rounds as "armor piercing" and thus not available for civilian resale.

Of course, that's all that's needed to create a panic and drive the price of all rounds through the roof.

[Bulldog0156]

If 4wd doesn't help you make corners better then I guess all those rally racers using AWD/4WD cars to make sharp turns on the loose soil of the tracks they race are just wasting their money huh?

Improves Dry Handling: This only applies to AWD vehicles with torque vectoring. The AWD version of the 2013 Acura TL is one example. Acura's "Super Handling All Wheel Drive" (SH-AWD) distributes torque to all four wheels, using a pair of electromagnetic clutches to freely regulate torque distribution between the rear wheels. This system is one of the rare cases when AWD can help with cornering.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/do-you-need-an-all-wheel-drive-or-four-wheel-drive-car.html

An acura humper must have wrote that, subaru's symmetrical AWD has been doing that for years!

[Goldfish]

Ralley driving gets into the realm of advanced drifting that I was talking about where they initiate the turn of the vehicle before they reach the corner. Look at the 4x4 score trucks. When they back off the gas, they drop out of 4 wheel drive so they can turn into the corner and when they get on the gas, the computer kicks the 4by back in to power thru the corner. If all you are doing is driving miss daisy putsing along tho, it is for sure less frustrating to be able to just press the accelerator slightly farther without wheel spin. For the rest of us who like to get around in a timely matter however...

[flyn88]

Holy shit, I looked just 3 days ago at some ammo online and now all the .223 ammo is gone.

Because of this

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2560750

I just placed an order last week. Just in time I guess. Even a case of target loads for my 12 gauge is getting ridiculous.

[Woody]

They are talking about reclassifying XM855 rounds as "armor piercing" and thus not available for civilian resale.

Of course, that's all that's needed to create a panic and drive the price of all rounds through the roof.

So it is just for that one designation of steel core rounds, right?

[DeadEye_Dan]

Yes.

And then it's sensationalized by the headline "threatens sales of AR-15's" and shit goes crazy.

Not saying I agree with or support the ban but damn some people are dumb.

[Woody]

I use to agree with banning armor piercing rounds, but as the government becomes more and more likely to be an enemy of the citizens someday I am quickly changing my opinion.

[Olly]

So it is just for that one designation of steel core rounds, right?

Yup but Fox news will report that they are trying to ban AR-15 ammo and everyone will go out and buy all the .223. Just like after Sandy Hook.

Guess what? I was right. All the major online ammo stores are totally out of .223 and all of then drove the prices up all day yesterday. I ordere 2k rds at $0.24 yesterday morning at around 1100 EST and by that night they were selling at around $0.80.

Now I will wait a few weeks and then start selling my ammo at $0.65/rd.

[Olly]

I use to agree with banning armor piercing rounds, but as the government becomes more and more likely to be an enemy of the citizens someday I am quickly changing my opinion.

I'm not in favor of any gun control at all. If the govt/police/military can have I should be able to also.

[Woody]

I use to agree with banning armor piercing rounds, but as the government becomes more and more likely to be an enemy of the citizens someday I am quickly changing my opinion.

I'm not in favor of any gun control at all. If the govt/police/military can have I should be able to also.

I didn't use to think like an adult.

[Olly]

I use to agree with banning armor piercing rounds, but as the government becomes more and more likely to be an enemy of the citizens someday I am quickly changing my opinion.

I'm not in favor of any gun control at all. If the govt/police/military can have I should be able to also.

I didn't use to think like an adult.

So a question is once the ATF puts a ban on selling 5.56 ammo how long will it be until they reclassify .223 as non sporting too? The reason they are going after 5.56 is due to the amout of lead in the bullet that makes it armor piercing. A 55 grain .223 ball ammo is not that much different than the 62 grain 5.56 ball ammo they are wanting to ban.

[SpinnerMan]

I use to agree with banning armor piercing rounds, but as the government becomes more and more likely to be an enemy of the citizens someday I am quickly changing my opinion.

I'm not in favor of any gun control at all. If the govt/police/military can have I should be able to also.

You need to be just a little clearer. The government can and does have nuclear weapons, air craft carriers, destroyers, ...

I believe they should amend the Constitution, because as written and intended it means exactly this and we have a right to keep and bear arms and doesn't allow for the restriction of what those arms are.

I believe anything the average soldier carries on his person, there is no reason to not allow everyone to have.

It gets a bit tricky in the middle, but if the courts had interpreted the Constitution as they should, Congress would have been forced to amend it to ban personal nukes and would have developed a clear law that would have been agreeable to 2/3rds of the Congress and 3/4ths of the States and we would be in this place where we allow the government to make it up as they go and all the harm that comes with these power grabs to advance personal agendas and appease political groups and all the flip flopping of the law with small shifts in how is in power.

[Woody]

I use to agree with banning armor piercing rounds, but as the government becomes more and more likely to be an enemy of the citizens someday I am quickly changing my opinion.

I'm not in favor of any gun control at all. If the govt/police/military can have I should be able to also.

I didn't use to think like an adult.

So a question is once the ATF puts a ban on selling 5.56 ammo how long will it be until they reclassify .223 as non sporting too? The reason they are going after 5.56 is due to the amout of lead in the bullet that makes it armor piercing. A 55 grain .223 ball ammo is not that much different than the 62 grain 5.56 ball ammo they are wanting to ban.

Actually they are not after 5.56 in general just the steel core version created for the sole purpose of penetrating Russian armored helmets.

I still wouldn't disagree that there is the possibility of a slippery slope here, BTW. What I said was I, when I was younger, didn't fully think through my opinions and often was wishy washy... not unlike a liberal... Of course those days are long gone.

[Olly]

You need to be just a little clearer. The government can and does have nuclear weapons, air craft carriers, destroyers, ...

How much more clear do I need to be? If the military/police/state or federal government can have it citizens should be allowed to have it too.

I'm sure you think I mean I personally think I should be able to have a battle ship with a full magazine at my private dock or a battalion of battle tanks under my personal control but what I mean is that citizen militias should be able to own those things if the gonvernment can.

The 2nd amendment of our constitution was meant to allow normal average citizens to have the same firepower as the military as a means to keep the government/military under control. It was written at a time when the peak of military technology could be had by anyone that could afford it.

At the time of the founding of this country every man had a rifle that just like every solider had. If the citizens felt like that government was out of control all the men in the area would ban together with their rifles and show force to the government. IE would be the Whiskey Rebellion of 1791 that resulted in the tax they were upset about being repealed in 1801. The armed citizens were able to march against what they felt was an unjust law/tax.

Today we're so out matched it would be like bringing a stick to a gun fight. We have no physical means of stopping an out of control state and THAT is the exact reason why most people in power are in favor of weapons control.

[SpinnerMan]

How much more clear do I need to be? If the military/police/state or federal government can have it citizens should be allowed to have it too.

I'm sure you think I mean I personally think I should be able to have a battle ship with a full magazine at my private dock or a battalion of battle tanks under my personal control but what I mean is that citizen militias should be able to own those things if the gonvernment can.

So you think private citizens should have nukes if they call themselves a citizen militia?

BTW, that is a clarification.

Well, I think you are in a very small minority.

I think if the 2nd amendment had been interpreted as it should. As I think we both agree, that it allowed people to own everything.

It would have forced any restrictions to be agreeable to 2/3rds of Congress and 3/4ths of the state.

We would have sane regulations now and not what we see where the Courts simply make it up as they go and allow the politicians to do the same. It would have made it crystal clear that Obama cannot do what he wants without amending the Constitution as it should be.

[The Duck Hammer]

So it is just for that one designation of steel core rounds, right?

Yup but Fox news will report that they are trying to ban AR-15 ammo and everyone will go out and buy all the .223. Just like after Sandy Hook.

Guess what? I was right. All the major online ammo stores are totally out of .223 and all of then drove the prices up all day yesterday. I ordere 2k rds at $0.24 yesterday morning at around 1100 EST and by that night they were selling at around $0.80.

Now I will wait a few weeks and then start selling my ammo at $0.65/rd.

Had a friend call me last night and ask if I had a .223 because they are about to ban all the ammo. They are just banning two different types that are known as penetrator ammo. The reclassification is bullshit as the Remington core lock rounds I use for deer will go through steel plate. It's just a load of fucking bullshit that's being blown way out of proportion by people who don't know what the ATF has proposed.

[The Duck Hammer]

I use to agree with banning armor piercing rounds, but as the government becomes more and more likely to be an enemy of the citizens someday I am quickly changing my opinion.

I'm not in favor of any gun control at all. If the govt/police/military can have I should be able to also.

You need to be just a little clearer. The government can and does have nuclear weapons, air craft carriers, destroyers, ...

I believe they should amend the Constitution, because as written and intended it means exactly this and we have a right to keep and bear arms and doesn't allow for the restriction of what those arms are.

I believe anything the average soldier carries on his person, there is no reason to not allow everyone to have.

It gets a bit tricky in the middle, but if the courts had interpreted the Constitution as they should, Congress would have been forced to amend it to ban personal nukes and would have developed a clear law that would have been agreeable to 2/3rds of the Congress and 3/4ths of the States and we would be in this place where we allow the government to make it up as they go and all the harm that comes with these power grabs to advance personal agendas and appease political groups and all the flip flopping of the law with small shifts in how is in power.

I think I should be able to have a select fire m4 produced after 1986. If some dipshit cop who can't find his ass with both hands is allowed to have one I should to. Not disrespecting all cops but some are fucking morons who can't hit the broad side of a barn at 7 feet, but because they have a badge they are allowed to have full auto firearms. It's bullshit. I also should be able to own a functioning Abrams if I please.

[Olly]

So you think private citizens should have nukes if they call themselves a citizen militia?

This is a hard question to answer. I can logically see a lot of points against it but I think at the end of the day citizen ran state level militias should have the ability to arm themselves to the same level as the federal government. Even if that means nuclear armament.

At the end of the day why does it make it automatically safer/better/more sane for the federal level government to have weapons of that magnitude and not anyone else? Why does the idea of the "average" Joe walking around with a nuke/tank/rifle/hand gun make people automatically think they are unqualified to do so? Is it just the training? What if citizen backed state militias had the same training as the guys working with the nukes now, would that change it at all?

Of course all of this is hypothetical. My favorite kind of debate

[The Duck Hammer]

Murder is still illegal so people should be allowed to have whatever they want. Maybe not nukes but short of that fuck it. It's bullshit that we can be overrun by Deputy Barney Fife at any moment because he doesn't have to follow the same laws we do. Look at California's handgun laws. The jackassery is extreme when it comes to definitions and LEO exemptions.

[Olly]

Might go look at this on Sunday.

http://mobile.craigslist.org/mcy/4888327011.html

Never owned a bike before but I've been having a strong urge to get an adventure bike lately.

[DixieDawg]

Might go look at this on Sunday.

http://mobile.craigslist.org/mcy/4888327011.html

Never owned a bike before but I've been having a strong urge to get an adventure bike lately.

They're good bikes had a CRF for awhile really enjoyed it and had a lot of fun with it without any problems

[sws002]

Okay, I'm not going to go back and read what was all said regarding the 5.56 ammo, but I did see a few comments that are off the mark. The BATFE made it known that they were attempting to reclassify the XM855 (green tip) round as light armor piercing. Typically, light armor piercing is classified by the core material of the bullet, ie lead vs steel. Steel core bullets are already banned for civilian use, but the XM855 is not steel core, rather steel tipped. The move seems to stem from the BATFE's recent obsession with AR pistols, and now claim that because these rounds can be fired from a "handgun", they are a threat to law enforcement.

[Olly]

[quote uid=137 name="sws002" ]Okay, I'm not going to go back and read what was all said regarding the 5.56 ammo, but I did see a few comments that are off the mark. The BATFE made it known that they were attempting to reclassify the XM855 (green tip) round as light armor piercing. Typically, light armor piercing is classified by the core material of the bullet, ie lead vs steel. Steel core bullets are already banned for civilian use, but the XM855 is not steel core, rather steel tipped. The move seems to stem from the BATFE's recent obsession with AR pistols, and now claim that because these rounds can be fired from a "handgun", they are a threat to law enforcement.[/quote]

if you had gone back and read what we all said about it you would have read that we all knew this. We were discussing the fact that even though .223 ammo was not in danger people were still making a run on it out of fear...

and how long it would be until the ATF decides that all AR15 ammo would be armor piercing since their logic is that AR pistols are more dangerous than traditional handguns.

[sws002]

I was mostly referring to the comments regarding steel core ammo.

[Olly]

I was mostly referring to the comments regarding steel core ammo.

Oh, well I think most of us know that the ATF isn't coming after "normal" lead core .223 ammo. The thing I was saying was that it's not that big of a leap for them to say that "normal" lead core .223 is just as dangerous as the steel core armor piercing ammo and since they would have already had that ban in place it will make it easier to ban all AR ammo.

[sws002]

I was mostly referring to the comments regarding steel core ammo.

Oh, well I think most of us know that the ATF isn't coming after "normal" lead core .223 ammo. The thing I was saying was that it's not that big of a leap for them to say that "normal" lead core .223 is just as dangerous as the steel core armor piercing ammo and since they would have already had that ban in place it will make it easier to ban all AR ammo.

Steel core ammo is already banned, XM855 is not steel core ammo, it is steel tipped. Believe it or not, if this ammo was only being shot out of standard AR's, it's very likely we wouldn't even be having this conversation. AR pistols are the hot button issue with the ATF right now, and apparently being able to "conceal" a weapon which can shoot steel-tipped ammo is a huge concern.

[Olly]

I was mostly referring to the comments regarding steel core ammo.

Oh, well I think most of us know that the ATF isn't coming after "normal" lead core .223 ammo. The thing I was saying was that it's not that big of a leap for them to say that "normal" lead core .223 is just as dangerous as the steel core armor piercing ammo and since they would have already had that ban in place it will make it easier to ban all AR ammo.

Steel core ammo is already banned, XM855 is not steel core ammo, it is steel tipped. Believe it or not, if this ammo was only being shot out of standard AR's, it's very likely we wouldn't even be having this conversation. AR pistols are the hot button issue with the ATF right now, and apparently being able to "conceal" a weapon which can shoot steel-tipped ammo is a huge concern.

Sorry steel tipped...

[sws002]

Sorry, but the distinction has to be made, otherwise, we are no smarter than the dipshits buying up all the .223 they can get their hands on right now. I just find the whole thing almost laughable, I've got a 16 ft gondola full of "LAP" ammo at work, it's called deer ammo. Damn near anything bigger than a .223/5.56 will go right through most light armor like a hot knife through butter, but it can't be shot out of a handgun, so it's not a threat (yet).

[Olly]

Sorry, but the distinction has to be made, otherwise, we are no smarter than the dipshits buying up all the .223 they can get their hands on right now. I just find the whole thing almost laughable, I've got a 16 ft gondola full of "LAP" ammo at work, it's called deer ammo. Damn near anything bigger than a .223/5.56 will go right through most light armor like a hot knife through butter, but it can't be shot out of a handgun, so it's not a threat (yet).

I bought 2k rounds of .223 two days ago.... guess I'm a dipshit. Or will be until I re-sell it to even bigger dipshits