A different kind of coyote...

[Rick]

A different kind of coyote than we're accustomed to gave my Chesapeake "coyote," Peake, a bit of a rush when it and another made a pass at him yesterday. Dang thing looked bigger than the dog, which is pushing 70lbs, and was almost on him when he realized it was there, returned the charge, chased it 80yds or so, and scared me just about as bad thinking he was going to catch it with another there to team up on him as when I thought the two were going to catch him. Fortunately, either his conditioning not to mess with fur, much less fight, or good sense kicked in, and Peake pulled up short of bloodshed on anyone's part. And while they shadowed him for a while at a distance, they kept it, and he ignored them.

Anyway, I got a fair shot of the big guy, who I'm guessing has some domestic dog in him:


and his running, if not actual, mate for reference to what our coyotes generally look like this time of year:

[SpinnerMan]

Glad your dog steered clear.

That looks like some of those big ass eastern coyotes I've seen up here. There was a big SOB like that living near the building I work, which is surrounded by a forest preserve (a park). He was staring at me from about 40 yards one morning. Looked like a freaking wolf and I was glad I was in my truck After he moved on, I measured his tracks in the snow. They were 3.1" and my 80 lb Chessie was 3.5". He looked about 80 lbs, but was probably about 50 given how thick their fur is in the winter.

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=598430&mode=2

The eastern coyote is a member of the canid, or dog family. It is larger than its western cousin - typically attributed to wolf-coyote hybridization - and usually has one of four pelt colorations: tri-color (German shepherd-like), red, blond and dark brown (appears black at a distance). Adult males weigh 45 to 55 pounds; females, 35 to 40 pounds. When seeing one for the first time, many people mistake eastern coyotes for dogs. Look for black lines running up and down the front of the front legs, yellow eyes and a cylindrical-shaped, low-hanging tail. Adult coyotes are much larger than foxes, and they tend to travel trails, dirt roads and habitat edges.

[DeadEye_Dan]

Dang..that thing looks huge, and in need of a bullet

[Flightstopper]

My bozo would be coyote poo at this point. Very cool pics Rick

[Bufflehead]

Looks like one of the endangered red wolves the government has dumped on our area. A "hugger" program(aka a source of funding for folks that have turned the ESA into a industry) that is thankfully nearing it's end.


Louisiana is included in their historical range but I don't know how many they think are left. The ones they used to start the program here came from Texas.

[Rick]

I don't know enough to rule that out but saw two thought-to-be red wolves back in the '80s and remember them as lankier. Having one lope parallel to us as we boated down a coastal marsh canal is an indelible memory from my early days here in Louisiana. The other was further inland and well away from us and initially mistaken for a deer, due to its height, until it bolted like a very big dog, instead.

[Olly]

I've never even heard of a Red Wolves before. Very cool thing to read up on.

[SpinnerMan]

Looks like one of the endangered red wolves the government has dumped on our area.

Odds are extremely long that that is what it was. The color certainly is in the range, but if you look at my link, Eastern Coyotes also have wolf in them and I've heard that Red Wolves aren't really their own species, but just a coyote/wolf cross with a higher portion of wolves than eastern coyotes. I have no idea about the truth of that.

http://www.fws.gov/redwolf/

Today, more than 100 red wolves roam their native habitats in eastern North Carolina

I actually did a fair amount of homework on Red Wolves because about 15 years ago I took a newbie hunting in the north Georgia mountains and he swears up, down, and sideways that he saw a wolf. I still bet it was a big coyote, but given that their is a red wolf population a few hundred miles away in NC and confirmed sightings less than that, it killed my certainty.

Move another few hundred miles to LA, and I'd put the odds truly at near zero. The coyotes around here vary a lot in color and if I saw that guy it wouldn't cross my mind as odd in any way other than bigger than average, but not wildly so.

[Bufflehead]

I've never even heard of a Red Wolves before. Very cool thing to read up on.

If you want to read about Red Wolves, here's 300+ pages about them

http://www.nchuntandfish.com/forums/sho ... on-scandal

[Bufflehead]

Looks like one of the endangered red wolves the government has dumped on our area.

Odds are extremely long that that is what it was. The color certainly is in the range, but if you look at my link, Eastern Coyotes also have wolf in them and I've heard that Red Wolves aren't really their own species, but just a coyote/wolf cross with a higher portion of wolves than eastern coyotes. I have no idea about the truth of that.

http://www.fws.gov/redwolf/

Today, more than 100 red wolves roam their native habitats in eastern North Carolina

I actually did a fair amount of homework on Red Wolves because about 15 years ago I took a newbie hunting in the north Georgia mountains and he swears up, down, and sideways that he saw a wolf. I still bet it was a big coyote, but given that their is a red wolf population a few hundred miles away in NC and confirmed sightings less than that, it killed my certainty.

Move another few hundred miles to LA, and I'd put the odds truly at near zero. The coyotes around here vary a lot in color and if I saw that guy it wouldn't cross my mind as odd in any way other than bigger than average, but not wildly so.

I've done a fair amount of homework on "red wolves" as well. I live in the five county recovery area that they claim was part of their historical range but their own data proves was not. I'm also a member of a 15,000+ acre hunt club that is surrounded on three sides by the NWR that these wolves call home. As far as them claiming there are 100 or so in the wild, they don't have a clue how many there are or where they are. You can read the thread I linked above if you want to know the truth about Red Wolves in NC.

[SpinnerMan]

100 or 1000, they are in NC, probably SC, and maybe GA. LA is a big stretch.

Eastern Coyotes seem to be coyote/wolf hybrids and Red Wolves seem to be wolf/coyote hybrids. That is why there is so much overlap in size and color.

So that guy is probably a lot more coyote than wolf, but I agree it is not 100% coyote.

Too bad he didn't shoot them and then it wouldn't matter

[Rick]

LA is a big stretch.

Maybe. But at least part of the breeding stock for the Carolina restoration was captured here in the '70s, and what I saw "up close and personal" in '83 dwarfed any coyote I'd seen. Then, too, there's this strange 2009 video:



Well, fiddle, here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWh1iAciHbA

Some think it a hoax with hybrid wolves or some such, but it inspired a fellow familiar with them what apparently would know to write:

If anyone knows who shot the footage, I’d really like to speak to them. I showed it to Dave Mech, Jim Shaw and other guys involved in the red wolf recovery program in the early 70’s and they all think that the animals in the video look like the animals they found in SE TX and SW LA in the early 70’s… Those animals became the founders of the captive breeding program. We’d really like to look at the animals over there to see if there might be a pocket of wolves. Any help finding the videographer would be greatly appreciated.

All that said, "wolf" would be much lower on my possibles list for our husky new friend than "coydog"...

[SpinnerMan]

How big do you think he was? Remember their hair is a lot thicker than a dog, so when you skin them there is a lot less there than you start. Never seen a coyote or wolf skinned, but a skinned fox is damn small compared to what it was with its fur coat still on.

Like I said, I saw one that looked pretty much like that. He looked to be about 80 lbs. In reality was probably more like 50 or so. They say coyote tracks are typically about 2.75" and this one I measured at 3.1" My 80 lb chessie was 3.5" which is the same size as wolves in WI.

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/wildlifehabitat/wolf/identify.html

Just like yours it was in the late winter with its full winter coat and had a mate with it that was a normal sized coyote that it dwarfed. That one was 100% eastern coyote, I'm pretty sure. Probably not as red as yours, but not far off.

We do actually get wolves up here wondering down from Wisconsin, but its not that far to the Cheddar Curtain. Mount Lions as well. The Chicago PD took one out a few years back which had wondered in from North Dakota according to DNA test, so clearly stranger things have happened.

I'm just playing the odds here. Plus I've seen big ass coyotes here that seem as big as the one in your picture while most are much smaller and look like the other one in your picture.

http://www.dnr.illinois.gov/news/Pages/IllinoisDNRUSFWSClarifyStatusofGrayWolvesinIllinois.aspx

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2008-04-15/news/0804140895_1_cougar-illinois-north-side

BTW, the video says they thought it was a gray wolf. Maybe he came from up north and not east.

[FlintRiverFowler]

Looks like one of the endangered red wolves the government has dumped on our area.

Odds are extremely long that that is what it was. The color certainly is in the range, but if you look at my link, Eastern Coyotes also have wolf in them and I've heard that Red Wolves aren't really their own species, but just a coyote/wolf cross with a higher portion of wolves than eastern coyotes. I have no idea about the truth of that.

http://www.fws.gov/redwolf/

Today, more than 100 red wolves roam their native habitats in eastern North Carolina

I actually did a fair amount of homework on Red Wolves because about 15 years ago I took a newbie hunting in the north Georgia mountains and he swears up, down, and sideways that he saw a wolf. I still bet it was a big coyote, but given that their is a red wolf population a few hundred miles away in NC and confirmed sightings less than that, it killed my certainty.

Move another few hundred miles to LA, and I'd put the odds truly at near zero. The coyotes around here vary a lot in color and if I saw that guy it wouldn't cross my mind as odd in any way other than bigger than average, but not wildly so.

I've done a fair amount of homework on "red wolves" as well. I live in the five county recovery area that they claim was part of their historical range but their own data proves was not. I'm also a member of a 15,000+ acre hunt club that is surrounded on three sides by the NWR that these wolves call home. As far as them claiming there are 100 or so in the wild, they don't have a clue how many there are or where they are. You can read the thread I linked above if you want to know the truth about Red Wolves in NC.

There are some pretty massive coyotes even around this congested area of metro Atlanta.
Three years ago on the golf course i work at there was the biggest coyote I've ever seen after a puppy that was following me that I had found on the golf course.
Went back to the truck and got my gun but of course never saw him again.
He showed up on my boss's trail cam that fall but that was the last of him.

[Rick]

How big do you think he was? Remember their hair is a lot thicker than a dog, so when you skin them there is a lot less there than you start. Never seen a coyote or wolf skinned, but a skinned fox is damn small compared to what it was with its fur coat still on.

No question that heavy coat added bulk, but my thought at the time was that he'd still be as big as the nearly 70lb dog without it. That impression may well have been influenced by the turn of events, but I've seen Peake in close proximity to several coyotes without any appearing his size match, hair and all.

Anyway, I suppose it could be a Northern snowbird, but still suspect a dog in the woodpile. There's another big one not too far across country that's black enough to make one think of the German shepherds a landowner there keeps.

Whatever it is, it's safe from me as long as it maintains its respect for my "coyote," but you'll not see me letting it tame to our presence and venture as close as some of the locals without consequence.

[SpinnerMan]

70 lbs would be a monster for a pure coyote.

Too bad you didn't get to take his ass out. Regardless of his DNA, that hoss is eating too damned much and hopefully not anybody's dogs.

[Rick]

If he's taken over that turf, which appears the case, I'm pretty certain I'll have plenty of potential shots at him, but with the exception of one eaten up with mange, I've not killed a coyote on purpose since finishing one with a tire tool well over twenty years ago. (Whacked one with my truck in the fog the very next morning after doing that and swearing off killing them and hit another in heavy pre-dawn rain a few seasons ago.) Way too much like killing a dog for me, and they serve the rice farmers by eating levee-breaching muskrats and nutrias.

[Tomkat]

I don't think that's a coydog; I think that is an adult male coyote, with no domestic dog in him.



That's the Alpha dog in his range, all challengers will fall by the wayside.

Choot 'em!!!

[SpinnerMan]

If he's taken over that turf, which appears the case, I'm pretty certain I'll have plenty of potential shots at him, but with the exception of one eaten up with mange, I've not killed a coyote on purpose since finishing one with a tire tool well over twenty years ago. (Whacked one with my truck in the fog the very next morning after doing that and swearing off killing them and hit another in heavy pre-dawn rain a few seasons ago.) Way too much like killing a dog for me, and they serve the rice farmers by eating levee-breaching muskrats and nutrias.

Around here and my parents in PA they are a huge nuisance, so that's why I'd kill everyone I can. I forget that may not be true everywhere.

The only good they do is they have stabilized our population of nuisance Canada geese. They are getting quite aggressive around people. I've heard many stories like this.

http://www.examiner.com/article/pack-of-coyotes-attack-chicago-home-busting-a-glass-door

One attacked my neighbors dog in their back yard. Some people never learn. I see these signs posted, have you seen fluffy? Nope, but I saw some fluffy coyote scat.

I actually had a woman come over to me because she would see me train my dog along the power lines and asked if I had seen her cat. It had got out the one night and never came back. I figured that I had to tell her where her cat probably was because she'd get another, let it out, and wonder where it went. She was shocked there were coyotes even though she lived next to a freaking coyote highway.

They travel those power lines at night to move from the forest preserve out into our neighborhoods hunting bunnies, road kill, garbage, wayward cats, and dogs that are "safe" inside their electric fences. Nothing like adding insult to injury as fluffy gets shocked on the way out as he is being carried off by a coyote.

[Rick]

I don't think that's a coydog; I think that is an adult male coyote, with no domestic dog in him.



That's the Alpha dog in his range, all challengers will fall by the wayside.

Choot 'em!!!

To say I know the coyotes in that area as well as anyone would be understatement, and this old boy was the previous big dog in that location for years:




I've deer hunted the wood's edge in the background for decades, watched the five that lived there hunt singly and in various groupings well into this past January, and whatever he is is new to me...

[Deltaman]

WOW! Rick, your mention of them keeping the nutria and muskrat population in check, is the first positive thing I have ever heard of when it comes to them, and better understand why you don't shoot them. Great pics by the way

[Darren]

Always something interesting down that way! I'm just working on trying to get a few buddies to visit our duck holes to take out a few hogs that are tearing up the marsh. They killed a good many during the duck season with bows toted along

[Rick]

Not sure how we've been spared from hogs to date, but that's something I'd go out of my way to whack just to keep it that way. Have found two spots torn up in Klondike over the last few years, but have yet to hear of an actual sighting, so I'm inclined to think the pig that did it is alone and/or sterile.

[Goldfish]

Might have something to do with you not shooting the yotes

[Bufflehead]

Might have something to do with you not shooting the yotes

Could definitely be a part of the reason. There is a area here that has always had a lot of hogs, they weren't very skittish at all but in the last five or six years the coyotes have showed up there in pretty good numbers and the hogs are fewer and spook easily.

[Goldfish]

We have wolves here so we probably won't get hogs. Of course there are only 3 wolves in the state if you ask the hippies

[Tomkat]

WOW! Rick, your mention of them keeping the nutria and muskrat population in check, is the first positive thing I have ever heard of when it comes to them, and better understand why you don't shoot them. Great pics by the way

Troy would say.....CHOOT 'EM!

[Slingshot]

Cool thread. I live about 20 miles or 30 miles outside of tampa fla , And we have the biggest coyots Ive ever seen around my house. I lived in Alabama for 4 years and hunted deer alot and the coyots were smaller there. So asked a fwc officer about the ones around my house, and said they were mixed with red wolf. So who knows.