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I use an ecollar. And I don't feel the least but bad about it.

assateague wrote:I use an ecollar. And I don't feel the least but bad about it.

I use one, and did feel bad about it, until he started getting excited every time I pulled it out. I did try it out on myself first as QHP suggested.

Better than the guys that beat their dog's into early hip dysplasia in my book.

Same here. I used it this morning, as a matter of fact.

We were out in the woods, and Dutch came across a dead mole about the size of a juice can. He picked it up, and tossed his head back as if to eat it, anaconda style. No amount of "off" would work, so I hit the collar after "off", which he ignored. It was the first time he came across something dead like that.

Right or wrong, I quickly escalated to "uncomfortable", while calmly saying "off". He dropped it, and then stood there looking at it. I decided to make it a teaching moment, and just stood there waiting, about 10 feet away with my hand in my coat pocket on the controller. Every time he went down to it, as soon as he opened his mouth I said off, and hit it at the uncomfortable level. Took about 6 times, and then when i started walking again, we followed, got back in front of me, and started hunting again. When we turned around and were on the way back to the Jeep, he walked right by that mole on the trail without so much as a glance, so I'm calling it a win.

I don't have any plans one way or the other for FF right now, so interested in this thread to see how it works out for banknote.

I do the same Jim. I taught "leave it", helps with many situations. Pointing a fresh bird nest, rabbit den, dead deer, coyote shit, or whatever.

That's good to know. I was worried for a bit that he might associate it with the collar, but it didn't seem to have that effect. He knows damn well what "off" is, and has for a while, but the dead tasty mole had his brain in "ignore Jim, I really want to eat this" mode, but I think he has a better grasp of consequences now.

jehler wrote:

one2many wrote:

jehler wrote:

one2many wrote: i will not feed a dog that will not do what its supposed to do

Bullshit, first off who are you to say what a dog is supposed to do? And if for some reason you think you are the god of dog destiny, should I ever meet you, and you truly are a piece of shit, I'll rip off your head and shit down your throat. Real talk

i sure the fuck dont know what the fuck got your pussy sore. fact is i dont care. my dogs have jobs to do if the dont make the grade they dont earn room and board.
real talk. you will take a trip to the er or the morgue if you step to me.....
oh and fuck you

now you can come back in here and spout off how bad you are, maybe some of your nut hugging butt buddies buy the tough talk but it will never hold water in my world.


please proceed in your internet bad ass but i will never respond to your spunk spewing mouth again....

lmao, you spout of with not feeding your dogs yada yada looking for a reaction, I give it to you and you get all worked up. You got me quivering brah...lol, nut hugging butt buddies, for fucks sake man, are you always this high strung or are you really a douche? You got me wondering

READ MUCH?????? you are not a hounds man at all. the term i will not feed a dog is just a way we say the dog is down the road....
have you seen me say anything about starving my dogs? anything about me Killing my dogs? i cull hard in my breading, but not old school culling i pay to fix the dog and then find a new home for the dog.... you are the one that went all crazy and threatened to shit down my neck. you seem to talk big time me often...you know john if i had a dollar for every time some half pint mother fucker thought he was man enough to step to me..... oh shit wait,i do, and i live comfortably
most all the time i enjoy your posts, you are funny and i enjoy the photos of you and JR doing your thang.
we ever do meet we can throw down and afterward i will help you up and serve you a drink.
i know i have gone off here a couple times but i have never belittled any ones dogs here and i never will.
i dont tell people how to train a dog and never will.because 99.99% of the people here dont have dogs that do what most of mine do.
i love dogs of all kinds even little toy dogs, but all of mine age dogs have jobs to perform, i will never feed a dog that cant do its job!

BankNote sorry for spouting off in your thread you have fine looking dog,and you seem to be doing a great job with that pup.
keep up great the work

and to John if you was just pissed up drunk feeling 10ft tall and bulletproof when you decided to threaten me(not shaking in my boots) then i may let some shit slide,but it wasnt the first time you said you would kick my ass(wouldnt ever happen)
rick and the others you are right about the NOT FEEDING THAT DOG saying

i have may share of electric collars. they also get used on some of my dogs a lot.not so much in training but while working. different stimulation mean different things to some of the dogs. it gets very hectic and turns into a cluster fuck operating 2 McNabs 3 Border Collies and a handfull of working dogs all at the same time. cant run them all at the same time just using a shepherd's whistle
again FF and CC works and if anyone wants to do it, great!

Thanks for the encouragement, everyone who's offered it. All the shit talk is par for the course, and I should have known the subject might chafe a little. I don't think there's any one right way, except for the application of patience and consistency. Squeezing the dog's toes together until it hurts isn't any different than shocking him with a collar, until we leave the table. May be this means we'll need more time on the table before we move on, but I have the time to spend and it will be worth it to me to be collar free.

That's a great attitude to have, BN! Looking forward to hearing more about the progress.

banknote wrote:Thanks for the encouragement, everyone who's offered it. All the shit talk is par for the course, and I should have known the subject might chafe a little. I don't think there's any one right way, except for the application of patience and consistency. Squeezing the dog's toes together until it hurts isn't any different than shocking him with a collar, until we leave the table. May be this means we'll need more time on the table before we move on, but I have the time to spend and it will be worth it to me to be collar free.

time together for the two of you is always a good thing.
the last few months i havent been able to spend as much time with all my mutts. i always have been a dogs place is out side. only time they came inside was for whelping or if one got buggered up they got to come in rest up good.i took my big male Dogo cross dog out to Colorado to stay with the kid anytime i wasnt going to be around. she potty trained him in a day
so at the age of 44 i have my first inside dog.i kind of like it or im getting soft in my advancing years.
keep up the work and never get frustrated.you are going to have a great hunting partner

assateague wrote:Same here. I used it this morning, as a matter of fact.

We were out in the woods, and Dutch came across a dead mole about the size of a juice can. He picked it up, and tossed his head back as if to eat it, anaconda style. No amount of "off" would work, so I hit the collar after "off", which he ignored. It was the first time he came across something dead like that.

Right or wrong, I quickly escalated to "uncomfortable", while calmly saying "off". He dropped it, and then stood there looking at it. I decided to make it a teaching moment, and just stood there waiting, about 10 feet away with my hand in my coat pocket on the controller. Every time he went down to it, as soon as he opened his mouth I said off, and hit it at the uncomfortable level. Took about 6 times, and then when i started walking again, we followed, got back in front of me, and started hunting again. When we turned around and were on the way back to the Jeep, he walked right by that mole on the trail without so much as a glance, so I'm calling it a win.

I don't have any plans one way or the other for FF right now, so interested in this thread to see how it works out for banknote.

The eating nasty shit was a challenge I wasn't sure I'd beat, either, and I'm not sure if I beat it or he just outgrew it, but i can't tell you how many times I've said "LEAVE IT LEAVE IT LEAVE IT..." all the while stciking my hand down his throat and pulling that nastiness right out of his gullet. Now he'll drop just about anything except cat shit.

Oh for fucks sake, one, are you not corncob the king of dog forum trolls? God as my fucking witness If your not I apologize, just playing along! But I think you are corncob and I'm busting your balls, GOD DAMM!!!
For fucks sake man, you are truly killing me and I'm wondering if you aren't some quivering bitch, I've been in my fair share of scraps and the ones that have put me in my place were not the ones that told me they would

capt1972 wrote:

banknote wrote:

capt1972 wrote:

Rick wrote:Ouch. Mod talk or not, the good new is that Banknote has made sense and progress and probably needs no help at all from the likes of us.

Oh I'm pretty sure that BN needs help just not with his dog.

I do have this boil on my ass that needs a squeeze.

We're making decent progress. Little to no pressure, except when he needs an occasional reminder. We've transitioned from hand to table, but his pick-ups and holds are sometimes sloppy so we're getting those right before we go to the ground. Beyond progress on the table, his general obedience and attentiveness have been outstanding. He's really tuning in.

Are its initials AB by any chance?

How did I get in this "I won't feed my dog if it won't hunt" thread. Jeezus

aunt betty wrote:

capt1972 wrote:

banknote wrote:

capt1972 wrote:

Rick wrote:Ouch. Mod talk or not, the good new is that Banknote has made sense and progress and probably needs no help at all from the likes of us.

Oh I'm pretty sure that BN needs help just not with his dog.

I do have this boil on my ass that needs a squeeze.

We're making decent progress. Little to no pressure, except when he needs an occasional reminder. We've transitioned from hand to table, but his pick-ups and holds are sometimes sloppy so we're getting those right before we go to the ground. Beyond progress on the table, his general obedience and attentiveness have been outstanding. He's really tuning in.

Are its initials AB by any chance?

How did I get in this "I won't feed my dog if it won't hunt" thread. Jeezus

Your dog squints when he is baked?

AKPirate wrote:

aunt betty wrote:

capt1972 wrote:

banknote wrote:

capt1972 wrote:[quote="Rick"]Ouch. Mod talk or not, the good new is that Banknote has made sense and progress and probably needs no help at all from the likes of us.

Oh I'm pretty sure that BN needs help just not with his dog.

I do have this boil on my ass that needs a squeeze.

We're making decent progress. Little to no pressure, except when he needs an occasional reminder. We've transitioned from hand to table, but his pick-ups and holds are sometimes sloppy so we're getting those right before we go to the ground. Beyond progress on the table, his general obedience and attentiveness have been outstanding. He's really tuning in.

Are its initials AB by any chance?

How did I get in this "I won't feed my dog if it won't hunt" thread. Jeezus

Your dog squints when he is baked?[/quote]
You need to be FFed.

aunt betty wrote:

capt1972 wrote:

banknote wrote:

capt1972 wrote:

Rick wrote:Ouch. Mod talk or not, the good new is that Banknote has made sense and progress and probably needs no help at all from the likes of us.

Oh I'm pretty sure that BN needs help just not with his dog.

I do have this boil on my ass that needs a squeeze.

We're making decent progress. Little to no pressure, except when he needs an occasional reminder. We've transitioned from hand to table, but his pick-ups and holds are sometimes sloppy so we're getting those right before we go to the ground. Beyond progress on the table, his general obedience and attentiveness have been outstanding. He's really tuning in.

Are its initials AB by any chance?

How did I get in this "I won't feed my dog sour food if it won't hunt" thread. Jeezus

Fify

It never gets old

assateague wrote:Same here. I used it this morning, as a matter of fact.

We were out in the woods, and Dutch came across a dead mole about the size of a juice can. He picked it up, and tossed his head back as if to eat it, anaconda style. No amount of "off" would work, so I hit the collar after "off", which he ignored. It was the first time he came across something dead like that.

Right or wrong, I quickly escalated to "uncomfortable", while calmly saying "off". He dropped it, and then stood there looking at it. I decided to make it a teaching moment, and just stood there waiting, about 10 feet away with my hand in my coat pocket on the controller. Every time he went down to it, as soon as he opened his mouth I said off, and hit it at the uncomfortable level. Took about 6 times, and then when i started walking again, we followed, got back in front of me, and started hunting again. When we turned around and were on the way back to the Jeep, he walked right by that mole on the trail without so much as a glance, so I'm calling it a win.

I don't have any plans one way or the other for FF right now, so interested in this thread to see how it works out for banknote.

Look up "de-snaking dogs".
Had Milo done. He will not go near a snake. Thank God.

You should build something like this AT.
Its a training aid. It teaches the dog you expect him to sit in a certain spot and wait for orders. Why?
One day you may hunt timber and use a dog stand. You may end up in a pit where the dog has an elevated box to sit on or maybe a big blind with eight guns.
Be ready or suffer. On my first dog I was clueless.

Paid to hunt in a pit and that dog made everyone miserable. Prepare for everything...
[attachment=-1]uploadfromtaptalk1398276271927.jpg[/attachment][attachment=-1]uploadfromtaptalk1398276331570.jpg[/attachment]

aunt betty wrote:You should build something like this AT.
Its a training aid. It teaches the dog you expect him to sit in a certain spot and wait for orders. Why?
One day you may hunt timber and use a dog stand. You may end up in a pit where the dog has an elevated box to sit on or maybe a big blind with eight guns.
Be ready or suffer. On my first dog I was clueless.

Paid to hunt in a pit and that dog made everyone miserable. Prepare for everything...
[attachment=-1]uploadfromtaptalk1398276271927.jpg[/attachment][attachment=-1]uploadfromtaptalk1398276331570.jpg[/attachment]

I know AT will like this.

You can use a piece of cardboard, or...anything to do this. No need to build anything, even if he didn't bother to square the OSB up.

Eric Haynes wrote:

aunt betty wrote:You should build something like this AT.
Its a training aid. It teaches the dog you expect him to sit in a certain spot and wait for orders. Why?
One day you may hunt timber and use a dog stand. You may end up in a pit where the dog has an elevated box to sit on or maybe a big blind with eight guns.
Be ready or suffer. On my first dog I was clueless.

Paid to hunt in a pit and that dog made everyone miserable. Prepare for everything...
[attachment=-1]uploadfromtaptalk1398276271927.jpg[/attachment][attachment=-1]uploadfromtaptalk1398276331570.jpg[/attachment]

I know AT will like this.

You can use a piece of cardboard, or...anything to do this. No need to build anything, even if he didn't bother to square the OSB up.

It's perfect...lol
I throw it and he retrieves that osb , puts it on the base, sits on it and dares me to try throwing it again.
You just don't know shit about training dogs the wrong way and getting results. You just know the right way but can't talk about it other than to say go build a pigeon coop or some other nonsense.

Here's a super long, slow, boring video of some of today's work. Neither of us is anywhere near perfect, but we're getting better.

banknote wrote:Here's a super long, slow, boring video of some of today's work. Neither of us is anywhere near perfect, but we're getting better.

Imagine that, without a collar and, they said it couldn't be done.
Good stuff Ed. Looks like Ky is coming along great. I think he's ready to teach you a thing or two this season. I hope I'm there to watch. He is going to be a great dog. Actually, he is a great dog. He will show you for sure.

Realize that long session of short retrieves was for the camera, but am curious what you're doing to stretch Ki out and keep him from becoming programed for tossed bumper distance?

Now you got me trying to figure out how to take a big rock with me duck hunting.

Rick wrote:Realize that long session of short retrieves was for the camera, but am curious what you're doing to stretch Ki out and keep him from becoming programed for tossed bumper distance?

Good question. If you sat through the whole thing, you may have noticed I started with 2 bumpers and ended up with 4. I had set a couple in the lawn, back behind the camera about 40 yards or so, farther than my throws were going. On one of the blinds I tossed while he was swimming, he wound up finding one of those other bumpers, instead. So then I sent him again for the one I threw and he went straight to it. Next I sent him for the other of the 2 in the lawn, which he searched a long time for, then became distracted by a mole, which is when I whistle stopped him and sent him over, which got him right to it. I'm generally not handling when he's searching right now, accept in instances like that where he's been distracted and I want to get him back on line.

We also do a lot of walking the beach with a couple bumpers and I set lots of blinds along the way, anywhere from 40-100yds, and he's usually pretty good about taking a line deep enough, although less so when he's running down wind.

And I have a friend who's duck club has a training pond, so we get out there now and then to work on multiple water crossings and blind searches. I need to do this a lot more.

QH's Paw wrote:

banknote wrote:Here's a super long, slow, boring video of some of today's work. Neither of us is anywhere near perfect, but we're getting better.

Imagine that, without a collar and, they said it couldn't be done.
Good stuff Ed. Looks like Ky is coming along great. I think he's ready to teach you a thing or two this season. I hope I'm there to watch. He is going to be a great dog. Actually, he is a great dog. He will show you for sure.

Thanks Mike! I hope you can watch some, too.