Pentagon needs to cut other places

[DC727]

Thank god we don't have officers in our career field

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

[RonE]

When I was in the service, I bitched about my pay too. I used to think that I was the lowest private in the Army and found out when I was commissioned that new 2nd Lt's were lower than the lowest private. As a new 2nd Lt. my base pay was $303.90 per month. I got orders TDY to go to school and got $16 per day per diem which was more than my base pay, quarters allowance and uniform allowance combined.

[assateague]

That's because it was during the War of 1812, and the government didn't have much cash.

[3geese4me]

When he was in the cavalry unit rode on the backs of dinosaurs instead of horses.

[AKPirate]

[rebelp74]

[quote="assateague"]How about stopping no-bid contracts? How about only allowing 5% cost overruns instead of allowing 100-150% overruns on these no-bid contracts? So much waste, and they want to save money by reducing pay and benefits. Easy for an O-9 making $180K a year to say this shit.

Yep an O-9 with 30 years has a base pay of $12K. I am an E-6 with a little over 10 years and I have a base pay of $3400.

What???

A month?

Yes.

Oh. I thought you meant a year for some reason and was wondering how in the hell that was even possible[/quote]
I'm trying to figure out how it's possible for month

[3geese4me]

That's just their base pay as well. General officers get additional pays and bonuses that are "necessary" for their job.

[RonE]

:lol:

You be thinkin he be noing better than to pick on veteroon.

[RonE]

Fuck all you fuckers, I was in the white name tag Army. The pre M-16 Army. I didn't get one of them Air Farce rifles till I got to the NOM.

[rebelp74]

Fuck all you fuckers, I was in the white name tag Army. The pre M-16 Army. I didn't get one of them Air Farce rifles till I got to the NOM.

You were in the white man army, as in that's all that were able to enlist

[AKPirate]

:lol:

You be thinkin he be noing better than to pick on veteroon.

What did you say old man?

[assateague]

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1399514216.664906.jpg

[rebelp74]

Damn RonE you were much thinner back then.

[goodkarmarising]

As long as the Pentagon has "green" fuel..


http://freebeacon.com/national-security ... -jet-fuel/


The Department of Defense (DOD) paid $150 per gallon for alternative jet fuel made from algae, more than 64 times the current market price for standard carbon-based fuels, according to a report released on Wednesday.

The Government Accountability Office (GAO) noted in its report that a Pentagon official reported paying “about $150 per gallon for 1,500 gallons of alternative jet fuel derived from algal oil.”

[Goldfish]

[quote="3geese4me"]
Yep an O-9 with 30 years has a base pay of $12K. I am an E-6 with a little over 10 years and I have a base pay of $3400.

What???

A month?

Yes.

Oh. I thought you meant a year for some reason and was wondering how in the hell that was even possible

I'm trying to figure out how it's possible for month[/quote]
I make less than that a month. It isn't hard, you just can't buy whatever whenever

[assateague]

You been doing your job for 10 years, in a management position?

[Goldfish]

You been doing your job for 10 years, in a management position?

who?

[assateague]

You!

[Eric Haynes]

[quote="Goldfish"][quote="3geese4me"]
Yep an O-9 with 30 years has a base pay of $12K. I am an E-6 with a little over 10 years and I have a base pay of $3400.

What???

A month?

Yes.

Oh. I thought you meant a year for some reason and was wondering how in the hell that was even possible

I'm trying to figure out how it's possible for month[/quote]
I make less than that a month. It isn't hard, you just can't buy whatever whenever[/quote]
That's also just base pay. They also get BAS on top of that. Most also get BAH also unless they live on base. BAH here is $1600 a month w/ dependents.

[3geese4me]

Goldfish, I think what assa was getting at was that if you, a skilled worker who had 10 years of experience in your field of choice. On top of that, you have management experience and then you got the paychecks you did. Then you compare your paychecks with your boss, who has minimal experience in what you do yet they make exponentially more than you. We are complaining about the pay scale differences between officers and enlisted. Our gripe is that officers, who don't know jack shit about the people that they are "responsible" for make so much more money than the enlisted supervisors that know every single detail about the job and the people performing the job.

[Olly]

Goldfish, I think what assa was getting at was that if you, a skilled worker who had 10 years of experience in your field of choice. On top of that, you have management experience and then you got the paychecks you did. Then you compare your paychecks with your boss, who has minimal experience in what you do yet they make exponentially more than you. We are complaining about the pay scale differences between officers and enlisted. Our gripe is that officers, who don't know jack shit about the people that they are "responsible" for make so much more money than the enlisted supervisors that know every single detail about the job and the people performing the job.

Exactly.

Tee officer vs enllisted pay is based on tradition. From a time when most soldiers were very simple people with no formal education. I'm talking Revolutionary War. Back then Officers were gentleman and nobles with the intelligence to lead an army. While I would say that most O-6's and above with 30 years in are pretty smart guys and do deserve a higher pay for what they do. Lower officers with little time in do not deserve to make almost double what I do because they are just officers. As a recruiter this point has never been driven home more for me. In other branches there are Officer recruiters. In the CG I recruit both enlisted and do OCS packages and the people putting in OCS packages aren't any smarter than the people doing enlisted they just managed to not sleep through enough classes in college to earn a degree.

Once accepted into OCS they will be earning more than I do as an E-5 with 7+ years of service and 5 of those 7 being in a technical field.

It's out dated to say the least.

[assateague]

Yep.

[RonE]

Goldfish, I think what assa was getting at was that if you, a skilled worker who had 10 years of experience in your field of choice. On top of that, you have management experience and then you got the paychecks you did. Then you compare your paychecks with your boss, who has minimal experience in what you do yet they make exponentially more than you. We are complaining about the pay scale differences between officers and enlisted. Our gripe is that officers, who don't know jack shit about the people that they are "responsible" for make so much more money than the enlisted supervisors that know every single detail about the job and the people performing the job.

The officers need not know the technical details about any particular task, that is the job of the specialist. The officer is the person that manages the group of specialists. Management skills are not awarded at an academy or OCS, they are learned over time. Some 2nd Lt's or Ensigns bring management skills with them into the service, some learn the skills out of necessity and some never learn.

If someone is upset about the disparity in the pay scales within the military there are several options to sooth the sole.
One can apply for and go to OCS, one can quit, or one can STFU.

[assateague]

Goldfish, I think what assa was getting at was that if you, a skilled worker who had 10 years of experience in your field of choice. On top of that, you have management experience and then you got the paychecks you did. Then you compare your paychecks with your boss, who has minimal experience in what you do yet they make exponentially more than you. We are complaining about the pay scale differences between officers and enlisted. Our gripe is that officers, who don't know jack shit about the people that they are "responsible" for make so much more money than the enlisted supervisors that know every single detail about the job and the people performing the job.

The officers need not know the technical details about any particular task, that is the job of the specialist. The officer is the person that manages the group of specialists. Management skills are not awarded at an academy or OCS, they are learned over time. Some 2nd Lt's or Ensigns bring management skills with them into the service, some learn the skills out of necessity and some never learn.

If someone is upset about the disparity in the pay scales within the military there are several options to sooth the sole.
One can apply for and go to OCS, one can quit, or one can STFU.

But that's the thing- they really don't manage shit. There are generally NCOs over large groups of soldiers, and then the officers manage the relatively small group of NCOs. And not knowing the technical details of a job, i.e. "how it's done" seems like a rather large impediment to properly managing said task. But apparently not. Like Olly, I have no problem with officers who have "learned the trade", so to speak, being compensated well. But it's anachronistic. For example, an E-6, with a college degree, who most likely supervises at least 10 soldiers, and often more, and is a subject matter expert as well as a military expert, will receive $2,950 a month. A second lieutenant who has been in the Army for 3 days, knows nothing, and will most likely NEVER be a subject matter expert, gets $2,905 a month. And that's just silly. 7 times out of 10, an officer is a hindrance to getting the job done, and those 3 times where he isn't, it's because he listened to his NCOs, who know what the fuck they're talking about.


As for the rest, I chose the middle option. As for going the officer route, that's not a plus, in my opinion. I was offered OCS, and turned it down for quite a few reasons. First, you never learn a skill. You learn some military mumbo jumbo, which amounts to semi-useful and often questionable management skills. I would not have gone to language school, nor would I have been "allowed" to interrogate. Second, you don't get to pick where you go. I had no desire to be branched transportation or some crap, I wanted to get an MOS and know what I would be doing. Third, having to be political rather than an expert to get promoted didn't appeal to me.

I can only speak to my case, but what does a lieutenant know about conducting interrogation operations, recruiting and running sources, or strategic debriefing? The short answer is "nothing", but yet they are paid considerably more to tell these people how to do their job. And that's just silly.

[Goldfish]

Goldfish, I think what assa was getting at was that if you, a skilled worker who had 10 years of experience in your field of choice. On top of that, you have management experience and then you got the paychecks you did. Then you compare your paychecks with your boss, who has minimal experience in what you do yet they make exponentially more than you. We are complaining about the pay scale differences between officers and enlisted. Our gripe is that officers, who don't know jack shit about the people that they are "responsible" for make so much more money than the enlisted supervisors that know every single detail about the job and the people performing the job.

I see. I don't more jack about enlisted/officer/I 6, E 3, U 2, etc. carry on

[Olly]

Goldfish, I think what assa was getting at was that if you, a skilled worker who had 10 years of experience in your field of choice. On top of that, you have management experience and then you got the paychecks you did. Then you compare your paychecks with your boss, who has minimal experience in what you do yet they make exponentially more than you. We are complaining about the pay scale differences between officers and enlisted. Our gripe is that officers, who don't know jack shit about the people that they are "responsible" for make so much more money than the enlisted supervisors that know every single detail about the job and the people performing the job.

The officers need not know the technical details about any particular task, that is the job of the specialist. The officer is the person that manages the group of specialists. Management skills are not awarded at an academy or OCS, they are learned over time. Some 2nd Lt's or Ensigns bring management skills with them into the service, some learn the skills out of necessity and some never learn.

If someone is upset about the disparity in the pay scales within the military there are several options to sooth the sole.
One can apply for and go to OCS, one can quit, or one can STFU.

When did you get commissioned

[RonE]

Goldfish, I think what assa was getting at was that if you, a skilled worker who had 10 years of experience in your field of choice. On top of that, you have management experience and then you got the paychecks you did. Then you compare your paychecks with your boss, who has minimal experience in what you do yet they make exponentially more than you. We are complaining about the pay scale differences between officers and enlisted. Our gripe is that officers, who don't know jack shit about the people that they are "responsible" for make so much more money than the enlisted supervisors that know every single detail about the job and the people performing the job.

The officers need not know the technical details about any particular task, that is the job of the specialist. The officer is the person that manages the group of specialists. Management skills are not awarded at an academy or OCS, they are learned over time. Some 2nd Lt's or Ensigns bring management skills with them into the service, some learn the skills out of necessity and some never learn.

If someone is upset about the disparity in the pay scales within the military there are several options to sooth the sole.
One can apply for and go to OCS, one can quit, or one can STFU.

When did you get commissioned

I got drafted when I was working at the Worlds Fair in 1965. I joined to avoid having to fly to my induction physical at Fort Ord California. I screwed up and joined for six years with a guaranteed tour in Europe. I was in the service for about 45 minutes before it started to suck. It sucked so hard, that I thought that there was no gravity, the whole earth just sucked. The next day, even before being assigned to a basic training company it was announced that a qualification test for OCS would be at 0600 the next morning and that if successfully completing OCS and becoming commissioned there would be a 2 year obligation.

Quick math told me that I could be away from the suction in maybe 2 1/2 - 3 years instead of 6. I passed the test and completed basic training satisfactorily but I had to complete AIT before going to OCS and I had to pass satisfactorily or better.
Well, the suction started again. I was sent from Fort Dix NJ to Fort Augusta, Ga for advanced individual training as an avionics equipment repair tech. The fucking school was 28 weeks long and I didn't know the first thing about electronics but I managed to complete it and got orders to OCS at Fort Gordon (Signal Corps).

OCS was HELL, I think I pushed Georgia half way to China. I ran till I couldn't run and then ran some more. Our class started with 115 candidates and graduated 57. I was commissioned in January 1967 after 25 weeks of bullshit and hell. I did learn a lot. I was then ordered to South East Asia but sent TDY to Fort Monmouth NJ for a 10 week Signal Officers Maintenance School. I reported 4 weeks early for the $16 per day per diem and assigned duties with a training battalion where all I had to do was conduct PE in the morning and fuck off the rest of the day.

Viet Nam was one of the most fun times of my life. I got shot at and missed, shit at and hit many times. Got to shoot back a few times and got to support lots of troops with a minimal amount of paperwork. Got to travel all around the country and drank like never before. While there I had lots of guns and my own jeep.

When I came back from Viet Nam in July of 1969 I was stationed with the signal battalion attached to the First Armored Division at Fort Head (Hood) Texas. I was a Company Commander for three different companies in the battalion. Each company was the worst in the battalion when I took it over and as soon as it became the best, I was given another company to straighten out. The suction had started again. It seemed that every person at Fort Head was either on the way to Viet Nam or on the way out of the service. Talk about attitude.

I stayed an extra year because in 1969 the job market sucked and they made me a Captain. I got out in January 1970 as an O3 over 4 making $910 plus $110 quarters and $47.88 uniform allowances.

I went to work for Memorex for $660 per month and to Junior College at night on the GI Bill for $343 per month. In 1972 I went to Chico State in Chico California on the GI Bill and sold real estate on the side and bought my first house in Oroville, Ca. I graduated from Chico in 1974 as soon as my GI Bill benefits ran out. I had arranged my classes to have Wednesdays off during duck season.

So, yes, officers make more money than enlisted men but in a lot of cases they work harder to become officers than enlisted men work to become e4 or e5. I feel fortunate that I went directly from e3 to e5 without ever having to be a Spec 4.

[AKPirate]

Goldfish, I think what assa was getting at was that if you, a skilled worker who had 10 years of experience in your field of choice. On top of that, you have management experience and then you got the paychecks you did. Then you compare your paychecks with your boss, who has minimal experience in what you do yet they make exponentially more than you. We are complaining about the pay scale differences between officers and enlisted. Our gripe is that officers, who don't know jack shit about the people that they are "responsible" for make so much more money than the enlisted supervisors that know every single detail about the job and the people performing the job.

The officers need not know the technical details about any particular task, that is the job of the specialist. The officer is the person that manages the group of specialists. Management skills are not awarded at an academy or OCS, they are learned over time. Some 2nd Lt's or Ensigns bring management skills with them into the service, some learn the skills out of necessity and some never learn.

If someone is upset about the disparity in the pay scales within the military there are several options to sooth the sole.
One can apply for and go to OCS, one can quit, or one can STFU.

When did you get commissioned

I got drafted when I was working at the Worlds Fair in 1965. I joined to avoid having to fly to my induction physical at Fort Ord California. I screwed up and joined for six years with a guaranteed tour in Europe. I was in the service for about 45 minutes before it started to suck. It sucked so hard, that I thought that there was no gravity, the whole earth just sucked. The next day, even before being assigned to a basic training company it was announced that a qualification test for OCS would be at 0600 the next morning and that if successfully completing OCS and becoming commissioned there would be a 2 year obligation.

Quick math told me that I could be away from the suction in maybe 2 1/2 - 3 years instead of 6. I passed the test and completed basic training satisfactorily but I had to complete AIT before going to OCS and I had to pass satisfactorily or better.
Well, the suction started again. I was sent from Fort Dix NJ to Fort Augusta, Ga for advanced individual training as an avionics equipment repair tech. The fucking school was 28 weeks long and I didn't know the first thing about electronics but I managed to complete it and got orders to OCS at Fort Gordon (Signal Corps).

OCS was HELL, I think I pushed Georgia half way to China. I ran till I couldn't run and then ran some more. Our class started with 115 candidates and graduated 57. I was commissioned in January 1967 after 25 weeks of bullshit and hell. I did learn a lot. I was then ordered to South East Asia but sent TDY to Fort Monmouth NJ for a 10 week Signal Officers Maintenance School. I reported 4 weeks early for the $16 per day per diem and assigned duties with a training battalion where all I had to do was conduct PE in the morning and fuck off the rest of the day.

Viet Nam was one of the most fun times of my life. I got shot at and missed, shit at and hit many times. Got to shoot back a few times and got to support lots of troops with a minimal amount of paperwork. Got to travel all around the country and drank like never before. While there I had lots of guns and my own jeep.

When I came back from Viet Nam in July of 1969 I was stationed with the signal battalion attached to the First Armored Division at Fort Head (Hood) Texas. I was a Company Commander for three different companies in the battalion. Each company was the worst in the battalion when I took it over and as soon as it became the best, I was given another company to straighten out. The suction had started again. It seemed that every person at Fort Head was either on the way to Viet Nam or on the way out of the service. Talk about attitude.

I stayed an extra year because in 1969 the job market sucked and they made me a Captain. I got out in January 1970 as an O3 over 4 making $910 plus $110 quarters and $47.88 uniform allowances.

I went to work for Memorex for $660 per month and to Junior College at night on the GI Bill for $343 per month. In 1972 I went to Chico State in Chico California on the GI Bill and sold real estate on the side and bought my first house in Oroville, Ca. I graduated from Chico in 1974 as soon as my GI Bill benefits ran out. I had arranged my classes to have Wednesdays off during duck season.

So, yes, officers make more money than enlisted men but in a lot of cases they work harder to become officers than enlisted men work to become e4 or e5. I feel fortunate that I went directly from e3 to e5 without ever having to be a Spec 4.

Nice post Ron, I enjoyed reading that

[assateague]

Me too. And I will say, that in a draft situation, the pay differential is probably well earned. But not in a volunteer army.

[waterfowlman]

Goldfish, I think what assa was getting at was that if you, a skilled worker who had 10 years of experience in your field of choice. On top of that, you have management experience and then you got the paychecks you did. Then you compare your paychecks with your boss, who has minimal experience in what you do yet they make exponentially more than you. We are complaining about the pay scale differences between officers and enlisted. Our gripe is that officers, who don't know jack shit about the people that they are "responsible" for make so much more money than the enlisted supervisors that know every single detail about the job and the people performing the job.

The officers need not know the technical details about any particular task, that is the job of the specialist. The officer is the person that manages the group of specialists. Management skills are not awarded at an academy or OCS, they are learned over time. Some 2nd Lt's or Ensigns bring management skills with them into the service, some learn the skills out of necessity and some never learn.

If someone is upset about the disparity in the pay scales within the military there are several options to sooth the sole.
One can apply for and go to OCS, one can quit, or one can STFU.

When did you get commissioned

I got drafted when I was working at the Worlds Fair in 1965. I joined to avoid having to fly to my induction physical at Fort Ord California. I screwed up and joined for six years with a guaranteed tour in Europe. I was in the service for about 45 minutes before it started to suck. It sucked so hard, that I thought that there was no gravity, the whole earth just sucked. The next day, even before being assigned to a basic training company it was announced that a qualification test for OCS would be at 0600 the next morning and that if successfully completing OCS and becoming commissioned there would be a 2 year obligation.

Quick math told me that I could be away from the suction in maybe 2 1/2 - 3 years instead of 6. I passed the test and completed basic training satisfactorily but I had to complete AIT before going to OCS and I had to pass satisfactorily or better.
Well, the suction started again. I was sent from Fort Dix NJ to Fort Augusta, Ga for advanced individual training as an avionics equipment repair tech. The fucking school was 28 weeks long and I didn't know the first thing about electronics but I managed to complete it and got orders to OCS at Fort Gordon (Signal Corps).

OCS was HELL, I think I pushed Georgia half way to China. I ran till I couldn't run and then ran some more. Our class started with 115 candidates and graduated 57. I was commissioned in January 1967 after 25 weeks of bullshit and hell. I did learn a lot. I was then ordered to South East Asia but sent TDY to Fort Monmouth NJ for a 10 week Signal Officers Maintenance School. I reported 4 weeks early for the $16 per day per diem and assigned duties with a training battalion where all I had to do was conduct PE in the morning and fuck off the rest of the day.

Viet Nam was one of the most fun times of my life. I got shot at and missed, shit at and hit many times. Got to shoot back a few times and got to support lots of troops with a minimal amount of paperwork. Got to travel all around the country and drank like never before. While there I had lots of guns and my own jeep.

When I came back from Viet Nam in July of 1969 I was stationed with the signal battalion attached to the First Armored Division at Fort Head (Hood) Texas. I was a Company Commander for three different companies in the battalion. Each company was the worst in the battalion when I took it over and as soon as it became the best, I was given another company to straighten out. The suction had started again. It seemed that every person at Fort Head was either on the way to Viet Nam or on the way out of the service. Talk about attitude.

I stayed an extra year because in 1969 the job market sucked and they made me a Captain. I got out in January 1970 as an O3 over 4 making $910 plus $110 quarters and $47.88 uniform allowances.

I went to work for Memorex for $660 per month and to Junior College at night on the GI Bill for $343 per month. In 1972 I went to Chico State in Chico California on the GI Bill and sold real estate on the side and bought my first house in Oroville, Ca. I graduated from Chico in 1974 as soon as my GI Bill benefits ran out. I had arranged my classes to have Wednesdays off during duck season.

So, yes, officers make more money than enlisted men but in a lot of cases they work harder to become officers than enlisted men work to become e4 or e5. I feel fortunate that I went directly from e3 to e5 without ever having to be a Spec 4.

Nice post Ron, I enjoyed reading that

X2.....Me too!