Post Season

[aunt betty]

The phrase "I wouldn't drive more than 12 miles for a duck" gets thrown at me a lot once I get down far enough to find people who complain about the good old days disappearing. Sorry but you can't have that attitude anymore. Some of us drive hundreds of miles to not shoot them. If I need to go to Kansas or Oklahoma so be it. Part of what is appealing to me about waterfowl hunting is "wandering".

I'm fairly certain that I've had to drive more than 12 miles for every duck I've ever killed except the ones I shot pond-hopping around the Thomasboro and Rantoul area. If you want to kill ducks in Champaign County you sneak and shoot them ponds on the interstate. That's it for ducks around here. Imagine it being that bad and you kept on going for decades. Most of us would quit and find something else but I'm not very intelligent.

[DComeaux]

This was put on FFL. I'm fairly confident there are many of these in the flyway.

I was asked to post these videos on the relevant thread talking about this but it only let's me post one at a time.

I went on a trip to Reelfoot lake area a few weeks ago...mid januaryish...it was cold. Frozen cold. Reelfoot lake was frozen solid bank to bank 6 inches thick. Shouldnt have been a duck for 200 miles. But...on the Black Bayou NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE....tax payer funded and one of 7 refuges in the general area was full of both water...corn...and ducks. I've seen birds by the thousands....this was by the 10s of thousands.

This is a small refuge , few hundred acres. It's planted with unharvested corn and has several well heads. Each pumping an umbrella plume of water that would drown u if u stuck ur head under it. The result was astounding.

We watched ducks for an hour n a half get up from one side of the little gravel road that split the cornfield and go land on the other side. It held em there for a week or more of freezing weather that SHOULD have sent em south. All they have to do is endure the cold a few days. It thawed the following Tuesday and the ducks stayed.

I saw this same thing at the same refuge for the first time 7 or 8 years ago. So I know it's been going on at least that long.

I filmed this myself...less than a month ago. I'm not asking anyone....or suggesting....or repeating some rumor I heard on the internet....im INFORMING you guys. I'm TELLING you this is going on. This is but one refuge out of God knows how many up and down the MS River alluvial valley.

If u wonder where ur mallards are....i found em.

https://www.facebook.com/KentSaxon/videos/1738311239553461/
https://www.facebook.com/KentSaxon/videos/1738311719553413/
https://www.facebook.com/KentSaxon/videos/1738312946219957/

[Rick]

I had always used the sight of robins as sign of the migration getting into full swing, but that doesn't work anymore. I would truly love to hunt the specks on a regular basis, but where they live and play is too expensive for me.

Robins probably all converted to eating corn worms. Well, that, and there's the world-wide migration change Larry has so often referenced.

Couple the migration changes in no way related to hunting with viable waterfowl habitat dwindling faster than hunter demand for it, and the rich man's sport John's predicting is, in large part, already here. Has been for some time, given that "rich" is relative. When I moved here in the '80s, there were already a whole lot of farm kids who couldn't hunt their own land (without sneaking it after the renters went back to the city), because hunting lease income was more important to their families' well being.

And a big portion of our camp's business has long come from folks who love waterfowling, but can only justify the expense of a few hunts a year. Just how it goes when demand out-paces supply.

[SpinnerMan]

I had always used the sight of robins as sign of the migration getting into full swing, but that doesn't work anymore.

When I was a kid and I would take my dog for a run behind a number of factors. One had a bunch of underground steam pipes or something that kept the ground from freezing. There were robins there all winter long. Where I work has a big network of steam. I often see robins with snow on the ground. They must be doing the same thing somewhere nearby. Throws off that when the robins arrive it is spring.

Where I primarily duck hunt gets overrun with robins sometimes. I have never seen anywhere near that many robins anywhere else.

[aunt betty]

What makes almost no sense to me is that Missouri (the poorest state) kicks ass on Illinois (one of the richest) at managing waterfowl sites. Then someone explains the meaning of "corruption" and it makes sense.

[SpinnerMan]

What makes almost no sense to me is that Missouri (the poorest state) kicks ass on Illinois (one of the richest) at managing waterfowl sites. Then someone explains the meaning of "corruption" and it makes sense.

Missouri is far from the poorest state, but it truly is the corruption problem. In PA, money from hunting licenses goes directly to the PA Game Commission and it is spent on hunting and nothing else. That's how it should be done in every state. In IL, it goes into the general fund and is spent on whatever the corrupt government decides will get them more votes than it costs them. I heard years ago that most of the wardens especially in the most rural areas don't have enough money in the budget to afford enough gasoline to do anywhere near the amount of patrolling they need to do.

Much of our money just goes into the black hole that is are bankrupt corrupt government. As I've told many people, I've lived all over the country, this is the most OPENLY corrupt place that I've ever been. There are a lot of corrupt places. LA is far from a model state. The difference I see here than say in PA where I grew up, which is a very corrupt state, is that it is so open because people just don't even think of it is corrupt. It's just what you do. It is insanely self centered, if it is good for me, it is good. It's not just the government, its the people, especially in Chicago, but across most of the state. It's just the culture here. But hey, at least the corruption is bipartisan.

[DComeaux]

Robins probably all converted to eating corn worms. Well, that, and there's the world-wide migration change Larry has so often referenced.

I still see the robins in large quantities, my point was was what john mentioned, that when they were here the ducks were on their heels. This isn't the case anymore. The ducks are stopping at the corn buffets.

Rick wrote:......and the rich man's sport John's predicting is, in large part, already here.

I agree, and It's been this way for as long as I've been chasing fowl. Being able to hunt choice areas (private) has always been cost prohibitive for the majority of duck hunters. Your bank account determines where you put your decoys.

[aunt betty]

It's called "the sport of kings" for a reason.
I'm the King of Stupid so am therefore exempt from a lot of regulations that y'all have to follow.

Missouri ain't poor?
Then how come when I drive down on Christmas day there are communities where it appears that the entire village or whatever turned out to beg on the side of the highway? Organized begging that looks like a roadside check-point.
Not scary at all. @

[Rick]

I still see the robins in large quantities...

Wish I could say the same.

[DComeaux]

I still see the robins in large quantities...

Wish I could say the same.

The Atchafalaya basin has a large population during the winter.

[Rick]

Much as I like the reminder of my northern roots when one shows, I don't think I'll make the drive over there to see them. Wouldn't have had to, of course, when I moved here. Haven't forgotten being tickled by the Lafayette police report of three men with pellet guns and a sack of robins.

[aunt betty]

If you want to see robins dig a big deep hole. They'll show up I promise.

[Lreynolds]

What makes almost no sense to me is that Missouri (the poorest state) kicks ass on Illinois (one of the richest) at managing waterfowl sites. Then someone explains the meaning of "corruption" and it makes sense.

Missouri is far from the poorest state, but it truly is the corruption problem. In PA, money from hunting licenses goes directly to the PA Game Commission and it is spent on hunting and nothing else. That's how it should be done in every state. In IL, it goes into the general fund and is spent on whatever the corrupt government decides will get them more votes than it costs them. I heard years ago that most of the wardens especially in the most rural areas don't have enough money in the budget to afford enough gasoline to do anywhere near the amount of patrolling they need to do.

I would certainly not argue with an Illinois resident about corruption in his home state, but it is NOT true that hunting license money in IL goes into the general fund. That would be a violation of the terms of the Federal Aid in Wildlife Restoration Act (Pittman-Robertson), and the state would not be able to share in those revenues, which Illinois clearly does. See https://www.hunter-ed.com/illinois/stud ... 700158977/ and https://www.fws.gov/midwest/news/WSFR2016-IL.html

However, the same quick google search to get those links, also turned up this one: https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois ... our-money/ which shows some strong dissatisfaction with how the Illinois Department of Natural Resources was using those funds in 2010. Interestingly, some of the things complained about in this article are things I also spend Pittman-Robertson fund on in Louisiana ...... white-fronted goose research, hunter-opinion surveys, e-mail sampling for state harvest surveys, aerial waterfowl surveys, wood duck banding and nest box maintenance and monitoring, mottled duck banding and nesting ecology studies, etc. Of course, it doesn't add up to a fraction of the P-R money spent on our WMAs, where the largest expenditure is rock for maintaining the access roads.

An interesting thing that hunters need to consider when discussing P-R money: I was blown away at the 2016 Southeast Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies Conference sub-committee meeting on Hunting, Fishing, and Wildlife Recreation Participation, when I learned that about 74% of P-R money now comes from people WHO DO NOT HUNT! No-one else in the room seemed fazed, but I am a new-comer to this group, and I was floored! I'd always known that clay target shooters contribute more than bird hunters to P-R funds, but geez ......... It's one reason a larger % of LDWF's allocation of P-R money was recently allocated to shooting range development and improvements.

I also don't know how "rich" Missouri is relative to other states, but I know that they've had 1/8 cent sales tax earmarked for their wildlife management agency since 1977. With that kind of reliable funding, their wetland habitat management puts ours to shame. In 1997, Arkansas got a similar tax dedication, and we are seeing them make similar expansions and improvements in their state-owned wetland habitats like those detailed in weekly reports like: https://www.agfc.com/en/news/2018/02/21 ... ck-magnet/ and https://www.agfc.com/en/news/2018/05/09 ... for-ducks/ Of course, both states have also had hunting license fee increases in the 19 years since Louisiana has had one.

Here in Louisiana, we have increased our WMA holdings primarily with donations. HUGE donations of Maurepas Swamp WMA, tracts of Joyce and Manchac WMAs, and most recently Wham Brake at Russell Sage WMA. Of course, when groups donate such large amounts of land, especially near large population centers, you can be assured it's not terrific stuff. And of course, the addition of so much acreage has not been accompanied by funding or staff to manage, enhance, or even maintain it. We recently purchased a tremendous tract of land at Russell Sage (we have some funds that are earmarked solely for acquisition) that has been farmed for rice for decades, so it had everything we needed to do some excellent moist-soil management as well as farm rice and leave some un-harvested, with solid water management. We excitedly wrote the plans, but no ....... financial limitations dictated we lease it back to the seller to continue farming it. Luckily, we have partners like DU that can help us piece together NAWCA grants to hopefully replace the pumping capacity not provided in the sale. In fact, without those partners and NAWCA grants, our management capacity would be reduced more than it is.

Sorry for being a long-winded whiner.

[Rick]

Good to see we've not sent you howling to the loony bin, yet, Larry.

[aunt betty]

Yeah, Illinois would never ever ever in a million years break federal law.
We simply have our governors do it. @ There is a tendency for them to end up in prison.

"We are a nation of laws".

Alaska, Hawaii, Colorado, California, Oregon, Nevada, Washington, Illinois, Montana, North Dakota, Minnesota, Michigan, Ohio, West Virginia. Pennsylvania, New York, Guam, Puerto Rico (and so on) and the District of Columbia don't count.
There are only four states that actually follow the law that I'm referring to.

[Lreynolds]

Good to see we've not sent you howling to the loony bin, yet, Larry.

That’ll probably happen at Tuesday’s Commission meeting, when DU, Delta, and the Commissioners tear into me over allocation of our statutory-dedicated funds for breeding habitat work.

[DComeaux]

Larry, did you do wood duck banding this year?

[SpinnerMan]

I would certainly not argue with an Illinois resident about corruption in his home state, but it is NOT true that hunting license money in IL goes into the general fund. That would be a violation of the terms of the Federal Aid in Wildlife Restoration Act (Pittman-Robertson), and the state would not be able to share in those revenues, which Illinois clearly does. See https://www.hunter-ed.com/illinois/stud ... 700158977/ and https://www.fws.gov/midwest/news/WSFR2016-IL.html

So trying to figure out. I'm sure you must be right. The Illinois DNR runs the state parks and a whole bunch of other things. So what I seem to misinterpreted is that the hunting and fishing is diluted by everything they do. They don't have a separate Game Commission as PA does or Wildlife and Fisheries if I understand how LA works. What crippled them was when Blagovich (he currently resides in federal prison) made a big cut in general funds that support the DNR. That was the bottom and we have improved from that. However, more money will probably just result in less from the general fund and not more for what hunters and fisherman want.

Wildlife and fisheries is just small part of a very large department. If it were separate as it should be, it would help a lot and I'd happily pay more in fees.

Sorry for being a long-winded whiner.

Your detailed knowledge is much appreciated. It's hard to understand the chaos from the outside.

[Lreynolds]

Larry, did you do wood duck banding this year?

Hens captured in wood duck nest boxes during our monitoring visits this spring were banded. We usually band about 300 adult females that way each year. But the preseason banding period begins tomorrow. Data from wood ducks banded July through September are used to estimate harvest and survival rates needed to inform bag limit decisions, so that’s the big effort for us. Our goal is a minimum of 1,500 banded during the preseason period.

[DComeaux]

Larry, did you do wood duck banding this year?

Hens captured in wood duck nest boxes during our monitoring visits this spring were banded. We usually band about 300 adult females that way each year. But the preseason banding period begins tomorrow. Data from wood ducks banded July through September are used to estimate harvest and survival rates needed to inform bag limit decisions, so that’s the big effort for us. Our goal is a minimum of 1,500 banded during the preseason period.

That's a lot of wood ducks with jewelry. Hopefully those taken are reported.

[DComeaux]

Interesting comments at about the :50 mark.

https://www.facebook.com/josh.goins.792/videos/209370663218726/

[aunt betty]

Drive Rt 45 between Rantoul and Thomasboro after it rains hard. You'll find "it".
There's a big depression that floods and turns into a pond. (then fills up with ducks)
The farmer struggles. He goes out with a shovel and tries to drain it. It's not very deep and all he has to do is dig a small trench for a few hundred yards. I've helped him. (tried getting him to wait until the season is over...no chance, not happenin')

All you gotta do is buy his 1280 acres, build some levees and flood it. Then you'd have Louisiana in east-central Illinois.
Should only run you about $30 million.

That's giving you a huge break on the price. Highest paid for tillable ground in this county was $32k/acre.

[DComeaux]

Whats that again?

https://www.facebook.com/josh.goins.792/videos/210061736482952/

[Rick]

And what's his migration fix that won't screw up more than it helps again?

[DComeaux]

And what's his migration fix that won't screw up more than it helps again?

Until those who make the regulations engage with this nothing can be done. Not sure how getting our natural (normal) migration back on track would hurt anyone. The way it is now, multiple states are being affected. Just like any other law, you'll have to work with it to be legal. I truly believe if this continues as is, the imprinting on the birds will eventually shut us down, as the older birds are taken or die off.

[aunt betty]

Mr. Phelps...

Get your powerful shrimp lobby to change it's job and lobby AGAINST no-till agriculture.
Ban no-till and force every farmer (by law) to spend that $$$ and plow every square inch of tillable farmland to a depth of 8 inches no later than October 31 each year. ALL TILLABLE GROUND includes that standing corn that get's flooded. Any field found not plowed by October 31 will be fined $1000/acre. No state exemptions!

There's one little problem. The chemical industries' lobbyists have more money. WAY MORE!
They'll fight to keep farmers using no-till and chemicals to kill bugs and weeds.
There is no easy solution and there are wealthy powers working very hard against any solutions that you can come up with.

This is a very hazardous mission should you choose to accept it.
This message will self destruct in 5 seconds.

[Rick]

Just like any other law, you'll have to work with it to be legal.

One more time: what solution does he or you or anyone propose to stop flooding feed that won't have negative consequences for most Louisiana waterfowlers? Even if the powers that be don't take a baiting rewrite in unintended directions?

And never mind that the habitat loss and hunting pressure here wouldn't let you turn back the migration clock, even if it were within man's power.

[aunt betty]

Sanchris Lake refuge is where I'd start. That lake has a "middle" that's a whole lotta lotta flooded corn and it's one of the few sites around here that is actually well-managed. It's a power plant lake and that power company loves ducks. Clinton Lake has a secret richie rich power company flooded corn field too. It's by that big square pond that's off limits to us mere mortals.

I suspect them standing corn videos are filmed in places like that that only get hunted two days a season.

[DComeaux]

Just like any other law, you'll have to work with it to be legal.

One more time: what solution does he or you or anyone propose to stop flooding feed that won't have negative consequences for most Louisiana waterfowlers? Even if the powers that be don't take a baiting rewrite in unintended directions?

And never mind that the habitat loss and hunting pressure here wouldn't let you turn back the migration clock, even if it were within man's power.

To be determined

Rice is a crop that actually uses water during growth. Second crop to seed head before harvest would probably be an issue for teal. Crawfish ponds using rice as food should not be an issue if not hunted, especially if fished regularity and surrounded by cannons. I wouldn't want to hunt near there anyway.

Rick, I'm curious as to your thinking on this. Are you really content with the status quo, are you really okay with the wait and see, don't poke the bear attitude you seem to have? I'm going to stay involved with this as long as there's growing interest and a possible fix. I'll also be in a blind every season that I'm able, and we have birds.