WaterfowlForum.Net

I thought his analogy was pretty good.

Jehler, I get where you are coming from on being safe. My concealed guns have never hurt anything.

But why are our rights more important than someone elses?

I would LOVE to hunt and trap my neighbors place, they would never know I am there. But I dont do it.

I asked them nicely for permission, they nicely said no. I respect their right to have that choice; they pay the property taxes on their land and actually own it. I dont want them to help them self to access on my place either.

A lawful business owner pays his own way, too. I dont have to use his services just like he doesnt have to allow guns on his place.
Like I said, it would be freaking foolish in Kansas to put one of those signs up; this is a very pro gun state. No one would ever go to a place with a sign.

Didn't you just support a bill in Kansas which said that they HAD to let you carry a gun in their place, or install a metal detector?

assateague wrote:Didn't you just support a bill in Kansas which said that they HAD to let you carry a gun in their place, or install a metal detector?

YEP, good on ya. I didnt follow it that close but I believe it was aimed at public buildings. Like I said, I dont really feel a need to carry here in my daily life.
Other than open carry, which is legal here.

I moved here from Missouri which gave the business owner a choice.

Heres the funny part....the maximum fine in MO for not leaving if the business owner allows it is $50. And thats if the police arrive and you are still there.

jehler wrote:

Olly wrote:

jehler wrote:

Olly wrote:

don taylor wrote:Piss on those signs. I carry where I want and when I want and go where I want. Except if it's going to get me a federal charge, I'm packing. Bars, church, where ever. Concealed means unseen and if you see my gun, there's gonna be a muzzle flash shortly thereafter. At that point, it's life and death and I could care less. It's cliche, but I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Because private property rights means nothing to you?

Sent from my phone.

if they are letting in the general public it ain't that private jr

That's like saying the general public should have control over the color of your house because everyone can see it.

If you don't respect the rights of a business owner but expect them to respect your rights as a gun owners you're a hypocrite.

I don't like that people in this country bar CCers from entering their businesses but I respect it and move on to the next store.

Sent from my phone.

you suck at analogies

My hypocrisy knows no bounds

No. I just don't choose what rights I support. Even the ones I don't agree with.

You could kind of say that not letting someone in to your business with a gun is un-American but having the personal liberty to choose who and what comes on your privately owned property is very American.

Publicly owned properties are a totally different topic and no public building or property should bar the 2nd amendment.

Sent from my phone.

I agree with what you're saying, Olly. But only to a point, and to be honest, I'm not sure where that point is. Here's why- the second amendment is the only one which really impacts whether I live or die. If someone infringes my right to free speech, I may get aggravated. If someone infringes my 5th amendment right, it might be harder to eventually stay out of jail. Same with the 4th. But if someone infringes my 2nd amendment right, I could, theoretically, die a quick violent death. To me, that is what sets the rights apart. The others are good and necessary, but the second speaks to a very fundamental HUMAN (not just "American") right, the right to self-preservation. So if someone doesn't want to allow me to defend myself, I will most likely go elsewhere. It's when I cannot carry in places where I have no choice but to go that I would get aggravated- if I have to go somewhere, and I cannot defend myself, and I die, I'm not certain of any other right which could be violated wiht such immediate, severe consequences.

Not sure if this makes sense or not. And as I said, if it's OK to say "no guns allowed" (which, for the record, I am OK with), it should, by logical extension, be OK to say "No Catholics/blacks/Irish/women/Mexicans/Jews/oranythingelse allowed" . But it's not. And the hypocrisy is what gets me.

Is it hypocritical if I don't give a fuck about anyone else's rights but my own?


I'm basically choosing to ignore everyone equally.

I don't think so. I suspect it's just called "protective self-interest" or something. If not, it is now.

assateague wrote:

3legged_lab wrote:

Goldfish wrote:

3legged_lab wrote:So has anyone actually ever seen a private business with a sign saying You can't cc?

Yup, lots of them. They say "this establishment bans weapons on the property" or "in this building"

sent from a phancy fone

Must be cuz I live in the wild west, we just don't see that here.

Fuck, I saw a couple of them in Tombstone. At the fancy-pants art galleries, but still- come on. You've got horses tied up to the rail in front of Big Nose Kate's Saloon two doors down, you have a mock gunfight in the street once a day on weekends, and you have a "no guns allowed" policy? In Tombstone? smdh.

Its Virgil's fault. Nobodys saying you can't own a gun, we're not even saying you can't carry a gun. We're just sayin you can't carry a gun in town.

Wearing that badge don't make you right.

3legged_lab wrote:

assateague wrote:

3legged_lab wrote:

Goldfish wrote:

3legged_lab wrote:So has anyone actually ever seen a private business with a sign saying You can't cc?

Yup, lots of them. They say "this establishment bans weapons on the property" or "in this building"

sent from a phancy fone

Must be cuz I live in the wild west, we just don't see that here.

Fuck, I saw a couple of them in Tombstone. At the fancy-pants art galleries, but still- come on. You've got horses tied up to the rail in front of Big Nose Kate's Saloon two doors down, you have a mock gunfight in the street once a day on weekends, and you have a "no guns allowed" policy? In Tombstone? smdh.

Its Virgil's fault. Nobodys saying you can't own a gun, we're not even saying you can't carry a gun. We're just sayin you can't carry a gun in town.

My biggest thing with this is you don't have a right to go to buffalo wild wings for example. BWW requesting that you don't carry a gun on THEIR property doesn't infringe on your 2nd amendment rights in any way. It's your choice or not to go in there...

People that CCW on private property knowing that the owners don't want it that way are full of themselves. Just simply respect their rights and go somewhere else.

I used BWW as an example because I used to love going there, the wings weren't great but my friends and I used to go all the time. I made a choice based on my beliefs to respect their rights and at the same time practice my own values and that meant never going there again.

Sent from my phone.

That's where I agree. Where I disagree is someplace like a state university. It is my right to go there. I pay for it. It is open to the public. Basically, I view it this way- if there is an establishment where it is ok to say "no blacks", then it's ok to say "no guns" (i.e. "private"). But if it would be deemed NOT ok to say "no blacks", then there is no logical basis for being allowed to say "no guns" at the same place.

assateague wrote:That's where I agree. Where I disagree is someplace like a state university. It is my right to go there. I pay for it. It is open to the public. Basically, I view it this way- if there is an establishment where it is ok to say "no blacks", then it's ok to say "no guns" (i.e. "private"). But if it would be deemed NOT ok to say "no blacks", then there is no logical basis for being allowed to say "no guns" at the same place.

I stated in the above post that public places i.e places we ALL pay for should not have any restrictions on the 2nd amendment. Not one.

Ok, then we agree. There now- we can be friends again.

assateague wrote:Here's why- the second amendment is the only one which really impacts whether I live or die.

That's very true but no one is forcing you to go into a place like BWW and you don't pay any taxes so it's not a right. The way I look at it is it's THEIRS to do with as THEY please and if YOU choose to enter a place like BWW then you need to be an adult about it and understand that you are possibly putting your life in danger by not having your firearm on your person.

That's how I see it so I choose not to be unarmed and not being unarmed means not going into BWW. I deal with it becuase it's THEIR right and me wanting to stuff my face with garlic chicken wings doesn't trump that.

Shall not be infringed

Olly wrote:

assateague wrote:Here's why- the second amendment is the only one which really impacts whether I live or die.

That's very true but no one is forcing you to go into a place like BWW and you don't pay any taxes so it's not a right. The way I look at it is it's THEIRS to do with as THEY please and if YOU choose to enter a place like BWW then you need to be an adult about it and understand that you are possibly putting your life in danger by not having your firearm on your person.

That's how I see it so I choose not to be unarmed and not being unarmed means not going into BWW. I deal with it becuase it's THEIR right and me wanting to stuff my face with garlic chicken wings doesn't trump that.

Dammit, I just agreed with you. Stop it.

3legged_lab wrote:

assateague wrote:

3legged_lab wrote:

Goldfish wrote:

3legged_lab wrote:So has anyone actually ever seen a private business with a sign saying You can't cc?

Yup, lots of them. They say "this establishment bans weapons on the property" or "in this building"

sent from a phancy fone

Must be cuz I live in the wild west, we just don't see that here.

Fuck, I saw a couple of them in Tombstone. At the fancy-pants art galleries, but still- come on. You've got horses tied up to the rail in front of Big Nose Kate's Saloon two doors down, you have a mock gunfight in the street once a day on weekends, and you have a "no guns allowed" policy? In Tombstone? smdh.

Its Virgil's fault. Nobodys saying you can't own a gun, we're not even saying you can't carry a gun. We're just sayin you can't carry a gun in town.

Ha! There's a tombstone quote we ain't heard yet

DeadEye_Dan wrote:Shall not be infringed

I was waiting for you to say that, Dan . I'm glad you did.

No one is infringing on your 2nd amendment rights by stopping you from coming on to THEIR property with a gun because YOU'RE the one making the choice to go onto THEIR property. Get it? You're the one making the choice. You need to understand that choice better and choosing to go into a place like BWW is making the choice to be un-armed. The 2nd amendment gives you the right to defend yourself and home but it doesn't give you the right to infringe on someone else's rights. If you want to carry a gun just don't go to places like BWW.

Let's contrast that by making the place a public park now. You pay taxes on that, you don't have a choice to pay taxes on that. Every adult pays taxes on that so it belongs to everyone. You SHOULD have a right to take your firearm there protected under the 2nd amendment.

Y'all know I'm a HUGE CCer and I CC everywhere expect for here at work because of the policy. So I don't take this shit lightly. The 2nd amendment is an awesome human invention and one that is unique to America as far as I know but it doesn't give you the right to ignore others rights.

Dammit, I just agreed with you. Stop it.

I was just elaborating for the others on this board.

Redbeard wrote:

3legged_lab wrote:

assateague wrote:

3legged_lab wrote:

Goldfish wrote:[quote="3legged_lab"]So has anyone actually ever seen a private business with a sign saying You can't cc?

Yup, lots of them. They say "this establishment bans weapons on the property" or "in this building"

sent from a phancy fone

Must be cuz I live in the wild west, we just don't see that here.

Fuck, I saw a couple of them in Tombstone. At the fancy-pants art galleries, but still- come on. You've got horses tied up to the rail in front of Big Nose Kate's Saloon two doors down, you have a mock gunfight in the street once a day on weekends, and you have a "no guns allowed" policy? In Tombstone? smdh.

Its Virgil's fault. Nobodys saying you can't own a gun, we're not even saying you can't carry a gun. We're just sayin you can't carry a gun in town.

Ha! There's a tombstone quote we ain't heard yet[/quote]
The whole time I was typing I figured someone had already posted it.

On the outside of my work. Guess what? I make the choice to continue my service knowing this is the policy. Even though I don't agree with it.

Sent from my phone.

Olly wrote:

uploadfromtaptalk1372273894634.jpg

On the outside of my work. Guess what? I make the choice to continue my service knowing this is the policy. Even though I don't agree with it.

Sent from my phone.

Hypocrite

Bootlipkiller wrote:

Olly wrote:

uploadfromtaptalk1372273894634.jpg

On the outside of my work. Guess what? I make the choice to continue my service knowing this is the policy. Even though I don't agree with it.

Sent from my phone.

Hypocrite

You obviously haven't read anything I've talked about here. Go write an old lady a ticket and let the big boys handle the heavy topics.

Sent from my phone.

So where is this tyrannical government that the second amendment is protecting you from?
Government statistics indicate that there is just a small, insignificant, and acceptable level of tyranny at this time.

Olly wrote:

DeadEye_Dan wrote:Shall not be infringed

I was waiting for you to say that, Dan . I'm glad you did.

No one is infringing on your 2nd amendment rights by stopping you from coming on to THEIR property with a gun because YOU'RE the one making the choice to go onto THEIR property. Get it? You're the one making the choice. You need to understand that choice better and choosing to go into a place like BWW is making the choice to be un-armed. The 2nd amendment gives you the right to defend yourself and home but it doesn't give you the right to infringe on someone else's rights. If you want to carry a gun just don't go to places like BWW.

Let's contrast that by making the place a public park now. You pay taxes on that, you don't have a choice to pay taxes on that. Every adult pays taxes on that so it belongs to everyone. You SHOULD have a right to take your firearm there protected under the 2nd amendment.

Y'all know I'm a HUGE CCer and I CC everywhere expect for here at work because of the policy. So I don't take this shit lightly. The 2nd amendment is an awesome human invention and one that is unique to America as far as I know but it doesn't give you the right to ignore others rights.

Dammit, I just agreed with you. Stop it.

I was just elaborating for the others on this board.

My rights shall not be infringed - I don't care about what rights BWWs think they have.

Olly wrote:

Bootlipkiller wrote:

Olly wrote:

uploadfromtaptalk1372273894634.jpg

On the outside of my work. Guess what? I make the choice to continue my service knowing this is the policy. Even though I don't agree with it.

Sent from my phone.

Hypocrite

You obviously haven't read anything I've talked about here. Go write an old lady a ticket and let the big boys handle the heavy topics.

Sent from my phone.

I forgot you always win.

DeadEye_Dan wrote:

Olly wrote:

DeadEye_Dan wrote:Shall not be infringed

I was waiting for you to say that, Dan . I'm glad you did.

No one is infringing on your 2nd amendment rights by stopping you from coming on to THEIR property with a gun because YOU'RE the one making the choice to go onto THEIR property. Get it? You're the one making the choice. You need to understand that choice better and choosing to go into a place like BWW is making the choice to be un-armed. The 2nd amendment gives you the right to defend yourself and home but it doesn't give you the right to infringe on someone else's rights. If you want to carry a gun just don't go to places like BWW.

Let's contrast that by making the place a public park now. You pay taxes on that, you don't have a choice to pay taxes on that. Every adult pays taxes on that so it belongs to everyone. You SHOULD have a right to take your firearm there protected under the 2nd amendment.

Y'all know I'm a HUGE CCer and I CC everywhere expect for here at work because of the policy. So I don't take this shit lightly. The 2nd amendment is an awesome human invention and one that is unique to America as far as I know but it doesn't give you the right to ignore others rights.

Dammit, I just agreed with you. Stop it.

I was just elaborating for the others on this board.

My rights shall not be infringed - I don't care about what rights BWWs think they have.

So you don't think private property rights mean anything? Does that mean I can walk onto your front yard and trespass? If you don't think BWW has the right to stop you from bringing a gun onto THEIR property then you can't have the right to stop me from walking onto yours.

What if you were a home owner and invited a bunch of people over for dinner but we're strictly against guns. Do your dinner guest have the right to go against your wishes in your house on your property?


Sent from my phone.

Bootlipkiller wrote:

Olly wrote:

Bootlipkiller wrote:

Olly wrote:

uploadfromtaptalk1372273894634.jpg

On the outside of my work. Guess what? I make the choice to continue my service knowing this is the policy. Even though I don't agree with it.

Sent from my phone.

Hypocrite

You obviously haven't read anything I've talked about here. Go write an old lady a ticket and let the big boys handle the heavy topics.

Sent from my phone.

I forgot you always win.

No I just like having intelligent debates. Some members on this forum know how to debate like an adult with valid points and arguments, like Assa and Dan. Which makes debating fun and a learning experience.

Some like yourself, don't.

Sent from my phone.

Where I live...I have the right to ask you to leave. I can't use force of any kind to remove any trespassers so I let the dog crap in the yard. Surprisingly effective. Oddly enough the crooks are more scared of dog poop making them sick than a .357 magnum. Great job gubment!
I can NOT use deadly force to protect my person or property. I CAN call a police officer who will ask if I have insurance when he gets here after 30 minutes minimum. I live in a minority area and they have to wait for a minority officer to be available.
Been there, done that. No insurance? Sorry. You are on your own but don't hurt anyone and play nice...OH kay? See ya.

Olly wrote:

Bootlipkiller wrote:

Olly wrote:

Bootlipkiller wrote:

Olly wrote:

uploadfromtaptalk1372273894634.jpg

On the outside of my work. Guess what? I make the choice to continue my service knowing this is the policy. Even though I don't agree with it.

Sent from my phone.

Hypocrite

You obviously haven't read anything I've talked about here. Go write an old lady a ticket and let the big boys handle the heavy topics.

Sent from my phone.

I forgot you always win.

No I just like having intelligent debates. Some members on this forum know how to debate like an adult with valid points and arguments, like Assa and Dan. Some like yourself, don't.

Sent from my phone.

And some like to attack people who are trying to bring light to a conversation. Like you. Some also like to attack people when they feel backed in a corner on their argument. Again this is you. You need to relax turbo and let people have opinions without attacking them. You called Jehler a hypocrite for his opinion but if someone calls you one you can't handle it without attacking someone personally. Cool your jets buddy, thought we were here to have fun.