WaterfowlForum.Net

SpinnerMan wrote:

DComeaux wrote:Seeing ducks walking on ice in flooded standing corn speaks volumes about it's holding power.

I still want to see some data that more than a small fraction of the duck population is using flooded standing corn as a primary food source. My perspective is seeing 10's of thousands of mallards flying out of the cooling lake in January when there is no significant flooded corn anywhere in area.

However, we are talking about 10,000,000 mallards breeding population in the traditional survey area, so probably 15,000,000 or more mallards overall at the start of hunting season. That's a lot of birds. Even if holding 100,000 birds, which is a massive number of birds, that is only 0.67%.

I don't believe the ducks are roosting on the ice. There needs to be large bodies of open water to hold massive numbers of ducks. There are more of them now because there are more warm water discharges, especially large cooling lakes, but also those dumping into natural rivers. It's not uncommon to see ducks stacked deep on these. 5,000 here, 10,000 there. It's still hard to see how the distribution of 15,000,000 birds can be changed that much.

DComeaux wrote:This, foiling mother natures plan.

Mother Nature's plan went out the window with the advent of the modern age. Warm water discharges and millions of acres of agricultural land was not the doing of Mother Nature.

Although I find this abstract interesting.

http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.2193/2007-028?journalCode=wild

The mallard (Anas platyrhynchos) is the most harvested duck in North America. A topic of debate among hunters, especially those in Arkansas, USA, is whether wintering distributions of mallards have changed in recent years. We examined distributions of mallards in the Mississippi (MF) and Central Flyways during hunting seasons 1980–2003 to determine if and why harvest distributions changed. We used Geographic Information Systems to analyze spatial distributions of band recoveries and harvest estimated using data from the United States Fish and Wildlife Service Parts Collection Survey. Mean latitudes of band recoveries and harvest estimates showed no significant trends across the study period. Despite slight increases in band recoveries and harvest on the peripheries of kernel density estimates, most harvest occurred in eastern Arkansas and northwestern Mississippi, USA, in all years. We found no evidence for changes in the harvest distributions of mallards. We believe that the late 1990s were years of exceptionally high harvest in the lower MF and that slight shifts northward since 2000 reflect a return to harvest distributions similar to those of the early 1980s. Our results provide biologists with possible explanations to hunter concerns of fewer mallards available for harvest.

Throughout all of my years as a waterfowl hunter mallards were never a major contributor to my harvest numbers. The places I've hunted weren't places mallards wanted to be. Gadwall, teal, spoon bill, wigeon, wood ducks, pretty much in that order, made up the bulk of my straps, so I've never really concerned myself with the mallard. I think they will go the way of the Canada goose migration and become northern park ducks. They seem to be heavily and easily manipulated, and I'd not like to see this happen to other species.
Hearing and seeing the wigeon this past weekend was a treat. I hadn't heard the live call from that species in a long while. It actually put a smile on my face.

DComeaux wrote:Gadwall, teal, spoon bill, wigeon, wood ducks, pretty much in that order, made up the bulk of my straps, so I've never really concerned myself with the mallard.

If the mallards are not shifting much if any, which would be the species that would seem most impacted by flooded corn, I would suspect the other species are not being impacted either.

The same holds true for all species. We are talking about 10's of millions of birds. Shifting that many birds requires a massive change.

"SpinnerMan"
I still want to see some data that more than a small fraction of the duck population is using flooded standing corn as a primary food source. My perspective is seeing 10's of thousands of mallards flying out of the cooling lake in January when there is no significant flooded corn anywhere in area.

Where would you say all of these mallards and other species are feeding during these cold winter months? I can understand the open water you speak of, but fowl can't survive on water alone, and I'd have to think that most normal waste grain (on ground) would not be palatable or existent this late in the season. Something is providing the food.

DComeaux wrote:

"SpinnerMan"
I still want to see some data that more than a small fraction of the duck population is using flooded standing corn as a primary food source. My perspective is seeing 10's of thousands of mallards flying out of the cooling lake in January when there is no significant flooded corn anywhere in area.

Where would you say all of these mallards and other species are feeding during these cold winter months? I can understand the open water you speak of, but fowl can't survive on water alone, and I'd have to think that most normal waste grain (on ground) would not be palatable or existent this late in the season. Something is providing the food.

I see the birds feeding on waste grain all winter long. I know you don't believe this, but they really do feed all winter long.

The corn is dry and frozen so it does not decay. Remember we keep all that grain in the freezer up here It is palatable all winter long. Per our discussions, this spring I went and walked the corn field by my house. This is a suburban field that has a ton of song bird, doves, geese, and a few ducks and anything else that eats corn had been feeding in all winter. It's probably got a lot more feeding pressure than your average farm field. I could still find good solid kernels in the spring. Not as many as I thought, but there was still some in the field.

The corn is not warm and damp like it would be in the south. It is mostly dry and frozen. It keeps very well.

SpinnerMan wrote:

DComeaux wrote:

"SpinnerMan"
I still want to see some data that more than a small fraction of the duck population is using flooded standing corn as a primary food source. My perspective is seeing 10's of thousands of mallards flying out of the cooling lake in January when there is no significant flooded corn anywhere in area.

Where would you say all of these mallards and other species are feeding during these cold winter months? I can understand the open water you speak of, but fowl can't survive on water alone, and I'd have to think that most normal waste grain (on ground) would not be palatable or existent this late in the season. Something is providing the food.

I see the birds feeding on waste grain all winter long. I know you don't believe this, but they really do feed all winter long.

The corn is dry and frozen so it does not decay. Remember we keep all that grain in the freezer up here It is palatable all winter long. Per our discussions, this spring I went and walked the corn field by my house. This is a suburban field that has a ton of song bird, doves, geese, and a few ducks and anything else that eats corn had been feeding in all winter. It's probably got a lot more feeding pressure than your average farm field. I could still find good solid kernels in the spring. Not as many as I thought, but there was still some in the field.

The corn is not warm and damp like it would be in the south. It is mostly dry and frozen. It keeps very well.

I guess frozen corn is better than canned.

My memory sucks, but recently saw (maybe here?) or heard that the wigeon are believed to have shifted west. Miss 'em, too.

DComeaux wrote:

SpinnerMan wrote:

DComeaux wrote:

"SpinnerMan"
I still want to see some data that more than a small fraction of the duck population is using flooded standing corn as a primary food source. My perspective is seeing 10's of thousands of mallards flying out of the cooling lake in January when there is no significant flooded corn anywhere in area.

Where would you say all of these mallards and other species are feeding during these cold winter months? I can understand the open water you speak of, but fowl can't survive on water alone, and I'd have to think that most normal waste grain (on ground) would not be palatable or existent this late in the season. Something is providing the food.

I see the birds feeding on waste grain all winter long. I know you don't believe this, but they really do feed all winter long.

The corn is dry and frozen so it does not decay. Remember we keep all that grain in the freezer up here It is palatable all winter long. Per our discussions, this spring I went and walked the corn field by my house. This is a suburban field that has a ton of song bird, doves, geese, and a few ducks and anything else that eats corn had been feeding in all winter. It's probably got a lot more feeding pressure than your average farm field. I could still find good solid kernels in the spring. Not as many as I thought, but there was still some in the field.

The corn is not warm and damp like it would be in the south. It is mostly dry and frozen. It keeps very well.

I guess frozen corn is better than canned.

Never seen a duck or goose with a can opener, so I would think so

But you see why the corn is palatable all winter long. Beans on the ground disintegrate pretty quickly if there is any moisture, but corn holds up to quite a bit. And they are still picking corn. Most of it is out, but they will pick some of it into December if we have a wet fall. There are also a ton of unpicked bean fields this year, which at this point I wonder if they will never be picked. We got a bunch of rain at a bad time. If they go unpicked, they will be a smorgasbord all winter long after they get beat down to the point birds will land in them.

And if it is wet enough to rot the corn in the fields, there is plenty of open water, grass, clover, ... available. Plenty of food unless there is deep snow. That's why we need deep snow above I-80 and 6 inches below it and a little bit of warm and cold to push the birds around to keep them from getting stale.

Snow is really what moves the hardy birds.

Rick wrote:My memory sucks, but recently saw (maybe here?) or heard that the wigeon are believed to have shifted west. Miss 'em, too.

The last good memory of those was about 6 or 7 years ago when a huge flock was working us at our Marceau farm west blind. They came from way the heck up there and spiraled their way down, being as vocal as I'd heard these birds, with many talking at the same time. They never did get right, but it didn't matter, it was a wonderful experience. Blake and I still talk about this from time to time in hunting conversations. I admire these fowl.

This took place before that area became so congested. The first couple of years there were special, and the topic of many camp fire conversations today. My son misses the speck hunting, and so do I. The middle section of that farm where the 12' blind was located left us with good memories of that place, albeit only for that one year when we had the entire place and I got to plow most of it.

Rick we had two nice bunches of wigeon pass through the decoys Saturday. First batch got thru unscathed, but a pretty wigeon drake did not make it thru with the second bunch.

MARSH BEAR wrote:Rick we had two nice bunches of wigeon pass through the decoys Saturday. First batch got thru unscathed, but a pretty wigeon drake did not make it thru with the second bunch.

Hopefully we'll get to play with a few this year.

In the '90, I had three species collectors and their taxidermist in a blind a mile from my house here in town, and we shot 14 big bull wigeon one morning to get them 4 real footballs with clean masks and caps and long sprigs. Lucky to shoot half that in a season now.

(Shot 16 grays the next day to get 4 with broad clean chestnut shoulder patches. That's over, too. Probably had more duck fun on that farm on the edge of Lake Arthur than anywhere I've ever hunted, and you'd be hard pressed to kill enough, other than September teal, ducks to make a gumbo in a season on that farm now.)

MARSH BEAR wrote:Rick we had two nice bunches of wigeon pass through the decoys Saturday. First batch got thru unscathed, but a pretty wigeon drake did not make it thru with the second bunch.

Can't recall the last time I worked a bunch of wigeon, a single mixed with grays or pins has been the only time I'm killing any lately (and I'm talking 2-3 max per season). 2004 and 2005 seasons.....bunches of wigeon in SE La marshes, big wads, was ton of fun to talk them in.

Frozen corn and ducksicle's to the north.....

Yep. We are supposed to get 1-3" of snow later this week. Then it looks like we will be breaking some thin ice by the middle of next week. Then its supposed to warm up a little after that. Probably not cold enough to move many birds to the cooling lakes though, but hopefully enough to put an end to the empty skies.

SpinnerMan wrote:Yep. We are supposed to get 1-3" of snow later this week. Then it looks like we will be breaking some thin ice by the middle of next week. Then its supposed to warm up a little after that. Probably not cold enough to move many birds to the cooling lakes though, but hopefully enough to put an end to the empty skies.

I would think this would at least empty Canada.

Not without deep snow.

Rick wrote:Not without deep snow.

Obviously depends on the species. The few wood ducks we have around will be long gone. It probably won't move any of the large Canada geese and not necessarily a lot of the small ones. Mallards seem to be a mix of fair weather and hardy birds, which is why I think things will pick up as it does move some of the early moving mallards, but not the bulk of them that come our way. Other species, I don't see enough to have a clue.

Rick wrote:Not without deep snow.

Not going to happen this year with El nino

Oh, well. We'll just have to make do...

ummm yea, I'll take all that shown. Will be just fine

Last couple of seasons hadn't had a frost till well into the season, late Nov at least.......first one is on the forecast for next week.

Chilly weekend and a possible freeze mid next week in Baton Rouge. I don't want the cold weather to hit southwest LA until after
Thanksgiving. The ducks I saw last Saturday are enough to last for a couple of weeks. Cold weather usually runs our ducks out and usually don't have much coming in to replace them. But so far I have not come up with a way to control the weather, but I am working on it.

MARSH BEAR wrote:Chilly weekend and a possible freeze mid next week in Baton Rouge. I don't want the cold weather to hit southwest LA until after
Thanksgiving. The ducks I saw last Saturday are enough to last for a couple of weeks. Cold weather usually runs our ducks out and usually don't have much coming in to replace them. But so far I have not come up with a way to control the weather, but I am working on it.

curious to see how much yours, DC, and Darren’s water level drop starting tonight. north winds blowing for over 48 hours starting tonight! Forecast shows it being north winds into Tues...

Atleast it won’t be white capping in your new spot DC


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Won't really get going from due north till mid day at least on Friday for me on east end, and then going to NE and eventually back east by end of weekend so we should be OK. N and NW drains us, NE keeps us in pretty good shape, we get water from Mississippi Sound.

Lake Borgne marine forecast below

FRIDAY
Northeast winds near 5 knots becoming north 20 knots in
the late morning and afternoon. Waves 1 foot or less building to
3 to 5 feet. Dominant period 4 seconds in the afternoon. Showers
and thunderstorms likely.

FRIDAY NIGHT
North winds 20 knots. Waves 3 to 5 feet. Dominant
period 4 seconds. Chance of showers and thunderstorms in the
evening.

SATURDAY
Northeast winds 15 to 20 knots. Waves 3 to 5 feet.
Dominant period 4 seconds.

SATURDAY NIGHT
Northeast winds 10 to 15 knots. Waves 2 to 3
feet. Dominant period 4 seconds. Chance of showers and
thunderstorms through the night.

SUNDAY
East winds 10 to 15 knots. Waves 2 to 3 feet. Dominant
period 4 seconds. Chance of showers and thunderstorms.

SUNDAY NIGHT
East winds 10 to 15 knots. Waves 2 to 3 feet.
Dominant period 4 seconds. Showers and thunderstorms.

MONDAY
North winds 10 to 15 knots. Waves 2 to 3 feet. Dominant
period 4 seconds. Showers and thunderstorms in the morning, then
showers and thunderstorms likely in the afternoon.

MONDAY NIGHT
North winds 20 to 25 knots. Waves 3 to 5 feet.
Chance of showers and thunderstorms in the evening, then showers
and thunderstorms likely after midnight.

BGkirk wrote:

MARSH BEAR wrote:Chilly weekend and a possible freeze mid next week in Baton Rouge. I don't want the cold weather to hit southwest LA until after
Thanksgiving. The ducks I saw last Saturday are enough to last for a couple of weeks. Cold weather usually runs our ducks out and usually don't have much coming in to replace them. But so far I have not come up with a way to control the weather, but I am working on it.

curious to see how much yours, DC, and Darren’s water level drop starting tonight. north winds blowing for over 48 hours starting tonight! Forecast shows it being north winds into Tues...

Atleast it won’t be white capping in your new spot DC


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We got a lot of rain down there lately and need these winds. I'll be out there tomorrow afternoon to bail the blind and check on things, and I hope all is well.

I'm uncertain about our opening day chances at the moment, but I'm still a little excited and ready to get out there. I'm really not expecting a busy morning. I wish next's week front would have come through this past Tuesday, or Yesterday.

Seems we don't have the birds
https://www.louisianasportsman.com/featured/aerial-waterfowl-survey-sw-louisiana-shows-fewest-birds-on-record/

Everyone I’ve talked to completely contradicts Larry’s survey.
Unless the folks I’ve talked to saw the same ducks Larry saw haha


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That survey is basically moot come Friday with such a significant weather event, each day there are birds moving and his survey was taken early this week I believe.

BGkirk wrote:Everyone I’ve talked to completely contradicts Larry’s survey.
Unless the folks I’ve talked to saw the same ducks Larry saw haha


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They didn't have the best flying conditions for this survey this week, and I'm pretty sure it's a difficult task in fog and rain, dodging storms.

Darren wrote:That survey is basically moot come Friday with such a significant weather event, each day there are birds moving and his survey was taken early this week I believe.

We did have a couple of good fronts at the end of October but nothing as good as we will get in the next 4-5 days.

I made it down here early and took a ride to check on the blind. All was good except the bird situation. Water is down significantly which is a plus, but I only saw 2 teal on the way out and a flock of high gadwall on the way in. Hope this ridiculas wind goes away.