2018-2019 Season Log

Re: 2018-2019 Season Log

Postby Ducaholic » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:50 am

Darren wrote:
Rick wrote:
DComeaux wrote:
Ducaholic wrote:Well?



Meaning, if you plant 100 acres and harvest 25, HARVEST not buffalo, It's illegal to hunt that field. Rolling any part of that field with standing crops is illegal. So this would tell me that the worry of hunting near a crawfish pond on a different property, meaning it's not part of your lease, with standing rice as crawfish feed is legal under todays law as written.
If you lease an x amount of rice land and you harvest only a few cuts and leave the remainder standing this is illegal today.


Having sat with a copy of the law and gone over it with Federal Agent Philip Siragusa, I'm pretty dang sure you or your informant are badly confused, as it was he who told me we had to combine, rather than buffalo (as had been the custom), sections of headed out rice past milk stage that we wanted to clear for hunting. And the trafficking to or from "bait" part of the law is what got so much of Delta Plantation shut down some years back (though not too long after my conversation with Flip), when failed/flooded crops on just some of it had to be plowed under for insurance purposes. Not to mention why California clubs had to abandon their previously accepted practice of baiting a central portion of their property X-number of yards from their blinds.

All of which points to why I'd hate to see the law rewritten with lord knows what result beyond that your group claims to target. And perhaps the reason why a state agent through my blind a few years ago told me they don't even think about making baiting cases unless working with the feds on one.


From Goins' discussion on the radio show i'd mentioned, it is such a slippery dance he's undertaking, and could really end up angering the La (and Ark) hoardes, if not others. In the radio discussion it seemed his biggest gripe was about the quantity of birds a given crop is able to sustain, and leveraging that as the reason a particular crop being banned, not simply that it was a crop. Someone said "What about all the acres of unnaturally flooded hardwoods/acorns?" To which he responded with "well according to this book........it only can sustain X amount so it's OK, but CORN can sustain X amount plus 1 billion so it's a problem".



No one ever said Goins was intelligent or savvy but passionate he is. I like the fact that the management and conservation community is having to address this issue. I view that as a positive. Clearly the enforcement community could easily differentiate the difference between unharvested crops and oak trees when it comes to baiting laws. I hope somehow Goins is successful in changing the law that allows for hunting over unharvested agricultural crops even if I don't ever see that happening. I applaud him for his energy. I only wish he chose to inform himself more thoroughly and and accurately while relying more on someone that could successfully guide him through the process. He would undoubtedly garner more of the support he needs to be successful if he were to change his script.
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Re: 2018-2019 Season Log

Postby Ducaholic » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:51 am

DComeaux wrote:
Ducaholic wrote:Well?



Anti climatic. They held the comments to the reason for the meeting. There were some off topic discussions though, and one interesting one that raised a few eyebrows on flooded crops, and something Josh has mentioned over and over on his page. He was not the one to bring it up, it was a guy that was concerned about the many acres of rice he plants with no intent to harvest and hunts over it. They actually told him to be sure to get with the feds and state enforcement for an evaluation. With flooded crops it's all or nothing when it comes to hunting. Meaning, if you plant 100 acres and harvest 25, HARVEST not buffalo, It's illegal to hunt that field. Rolling any part of that field with standing crops is illegal. So this would tell me that the worry of hunting near a crawfish pond on a different property, meaning it's not part of your lease, with standing rice as crawfish feed is legal under todays law as written.
If you lease an x amount of rice land and you harvest only a few cuts and leave the remainder standing this is illegal today.

This a Fed law and after hearing this, I've seen many pictures this season of corn operations that were not legal.




Thanks... :thumbsup:
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Re: 2018-2019 Season Log

Postby Darren » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:37 pm

Ducaholic wrote:I applaud him for his energy. I only wish he chose to inform himself more thoroughly and and accurately while relying more on someone that could successfully guide him through the process. He would undoubtedly garner more of the support he needs to be successful if he were to change his script.


Yup. Hard to get behind in current form
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Re: 2018-2019 Season Log

Postby Johnc » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:51 pm

Hum consider this—-

This flyway federation causes a change

1— John c no longer teal hunts — law changed—no hunting in second crop

2. Rick teal hunts in mud hole-oh but wait—-all the big money that did teal hunt in fields comes in and buys out Doug
Uh oh

3. Onto big ducks. Me and Darren are able to flood up,but wait,now got crawfish pond with unharvested rice too close—- looks like I am hunting dry field. Darren says ok I will hunt my marsh//nope marsh blind outbid by big money kicked out of rice

4. Same for Rick

I get it,this movement is aimed at the corn and purposely farming for ducks

But explain to me how the law can be changed to prohibit flooded “bait’ but not interfere with the majority of field hunters down here and really drive any common man out their good ole marsh blind because they have been outbid by people in which money isn’t an object?
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Re: 2018-2019 Season Log

Postby Johnc » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:40 pm

I know the above is hypothetical BUT kind of scary if ever a reality
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Re: 2018-2019 Season Log

Postby Duck Engr » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:05 pm

When you give government control of anything, you’re always on the edge of unintended consequences, no doubt John.

Maybe some common ground can be attainable by better defining (and actually sticking to) “normal” farming practices. Flooding second crop rice for crawfish or flooding harvested fields for weed control, are definitely normal farming practices. Flooding standing corn and/or other standing crops for the sole purpose of hunting with no farming in sight, not normal.
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Re: 2018-2019 Season Log

Postby Johnc » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:21 pm

Maybe that will arise. More of a defined set of rules

That would be better. Just hope it’s not radical and ends up shutting us all down.
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Re: 2018-2019 Season Log

Postby Darren » Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:19 pm

All great points John, and Rick's been banging that drum of how slippery the slope is since Day 1 of this discussion. Lot of folks stand to lose a lot

Another question: is second crop rice only flooded to hunt or will it still have water......and thus teal....during september but not able to be hunted/pressured? Could be massive refuge system
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Re: 2018-2019 Season Log

Postby Johnc » Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:45 pm

This is my limited knowledge

Once rice harvested it is considered normal to flood to decomp the leftover stubble

Plow,Buffalo,flood to decomp stubble and yes we hunt over

Second crop,yes flooding normal. Hunt over that is and has been fine. Rice not headed out or mature at this point

Making ponds or clearing areas in second crop,yes they allow,pretty lenient

Now all this raising hell actually goes somewhere and law globally changed—I don’t know what occurs,because who actually controls
This revision to the treaty? Once done it’s done. If wording all inclusive that’s a major shoot themselves in the foot

Bad all around though. If can’t hunt second crop,hurts the field guys but may make mini refuges all over and hurt the marsh guys too

Like I said,purposely farming for fowl,I am not a fan

However,I don’t feel a bird is anymore my property here in Sw Louisiana then a man in Kansas IF the playing field is level

Now purposely holding against normal nature,that’s an issue in my opinion
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Re: 2018-2019 Season Log

Postby Johnc » Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:51 pm

I know this was a down year.

But we still killed birds. To be honest I had just as much fun killing our limited numbers this year as I did the banner numbers last year.

The satisfaction level was the same in the end. I don’t feel shorted

And I will be ready to go again next year,but I am not bitter,worried about how to keep floor of the blind from rusting but not mad at Missouri
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Re: 2018-2019 Season Log

Postby Rick » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:32 am

Johnc wrote:Making ponds or clearing areas in second crop,yes they allow,pretty lenient


Just have to do it before that crop's seeds harden, ie: while in "milk stage," or combine and remove them from the area to be buffaloed or shredded.

Either the law or its interpretation was much more lenient when I moved here, in that waterfowl baiting was much the same as doves: could knock grain down in place just not import it.

The "normal agricultural process," has never been an issue here except for doves, where one can import grain if it is such, as in top-seeding winter wheat. And we could never, to my knowledge, move grain for waterfowl, normal or not.

Been long enough that the Fed who sat with me over the laws is retired, and my memory may be flawed, but I know I'd hate to see it made any more complicated than that.
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Re: 2018-2019 Season Log

Postby Ducaholic » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:08 am

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Re: 2018-2019 Season Log

Postby Rick » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:33 am

Much better done that most I've seen.
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Re: 2018-2019 Season Log

Postby Johnc » Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:05 pm

That is funny
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