Post-Season 2018-2019

[DComeaux]

That's more ducks than my entire duck club shot this year.

Does that mean we might not get your club's support for restoring Louisiana's fair share of the birds?

Where's our fair share? It used to be one of the top clubs in the entire state? Not any more

Maybe y'all should start farming for ducks before it's too late.

[SpinnerMan]

That's more ducks than my entire duck club shot this year.

Does that mean we might not get your club's support for restoring Louisiana's fair share of the birds?

Where's our fair share? It used to be one of the top clubs in the entire state? Not any more

Maybe y'all should start farming for ducks before it's too late.

Covering over cornfields with housing developments is what did the damage.

Oh and they may shutdown the nuke plant in a few years, so my late season hunting may be sunk.

[Duck Engr]

Pulled this from another page but it gave me a little laugh. Published in 1984.

[SpinnerMan]

[Darren]

Nothing has changed, at all

[Rick]

Yup.

First Louisiana duck camp I visited featured a framed piece of calligraphy to the effect of:

"Too is the most important word in the waterfowler's lexicon:
too clear, too cloudy
too calm, too windy
too early, too late
too warm, too cold
too this, too that (and so on and on, until...)
...and tomorrow"

[SpinnerMan]

Yup.

First Louisiana duck camp I visited featured a framed piece of calligraphy to the effect of:

"Too is the most important word in the waterfowler's lexicon:
too clear, too cloudy
too calm, too windy
too early, too late
too warm, too cold
too this, too that (and so on and on, until...)
...and tomorrow"

I think that is what is great about keeping a log because our memories are not too good.

Uneventful bad days are forgotten and good days are remembered. This makes the past seem better than it actually was. It may have been better, but it was not as good as it seems today. How many of those days from a decade ago when you had too many excuses can you even remember today?

Even this past season, 33 of the 48 times (my log splits mornings and evenings as separate times) I went hunting that I got nothing. I can't remember but a few of those 33 times and of those I can it was because something exciting happened like my wife shooting at her first goose, me missing a buck, getting out of my deer stand just as 3 deer were coming in, seeing an insane number of ducks, ... Most of those zero days were deer hunting, which is a given for deer hunting. But I can remember nearly all of the 15 times where I harvested something. So even now, the season seems much better than it did at the low point. Although, I had a good season and even with the large number of zero days I never really had a very low point. I think the reason for not getting discouraged is that I split up the season between deer hunting and waterfowling along with throwing in a 2 week trip to Florida in the middle. Just waterfowl and I was looking at nearly 3 months of failure this season.

[Darren]

Yup.

First Louisiana duck camp I visited featured a framed piece of calligraphy to the effect of:

"Too is the most important word in the waterfowler's lexicon:
too clear, too cloudy
too calm, too windy
too early, too late
too warm, too cold
too this, too that (and so on and on, until...)
...and tomorrow"

I think that is what is great about keeping a log because our memories are not too good.

Uneventful bad days are forgotten and good days are remembered. This makes the past seem better than it actually was. It may have been better, but it was not as good as it seems today. How many of those days from a decade ago when you had too many excuses can you even remember today?

Even this past season, 33 of the 48 times (my log splits mornings and evenings as separate times) I went hunting that I got nothing. I can't remember but a few of those 33 times and of those I can it was because something exciting happened like my wife shooting at her first goose, me missing a buck, getting out of my deer stand just as 3 deer were coming in, seeing an insane number of ducks, ... Most of those zero days were deer hunting, which is a given for deer hunting. But I can remember nearly all of the 15 times where I harvested something. So even now, the season seems much better than it did at the low point. Although, I had a good season and even with the large number of zero days I never really had a very low point. I think the reason for not getting discouraged is that I split up the season between deer hunting and waterfowling along with throwing in a 2 week trip to Florida in the middle. Just waterfowl and I was looking at nearly 3 months of failure this season.

Absolutely. And my log says that 2013 season was spooky similar to this one for my usual stomping grounds.....but 2014 was strong, as was 2015, 2016, and 2017, "strong" by a mile particularly compared to 2018, in fact.

So I'll stick to that, citing ducks are going to be ducks and weather will be what it will be, before I start raising too much hell about people spending money improving property north of me that WAS NOT effective enough to keep me from good gunning only one year ago.....DComeaux can bring his jabs, we have fun with it. But if I have to see one more d&mn video of mallards eating corn over a frozen flood, with some clown saying "SEE!! There's where all my southeast Louisiana teal and grays are!!"....I may throw up on keyboard.

Offseason rolls on, glad to see ongoing discussions in here

[Ducaholic]

Darren what’s a strong season? Clearly that varies from hunter to hunter. 2013/14 was my last strong season. My hunting group averaged 4+ ducks per man per hunt and we didn’t have to target divers or spoons. This year I would have shot anything at anytime lol

[DComeaux]

.DComeaux can bring his jabs, we have fun with it. But if I have to see one more d&mn video of mallards eating corn over a frozen flood, with some clown saying "SEE!! There's where all my southeast Louisiana teal and grays are!!"....I may throw up on keyboard.

Offseason rolls on, glad to see ongoing discussions in here

Honestly, I'm tired of that myself. I had, or am having a decent debate of sorts on the fuge with a few guys but we just keep going in the same circles. I found this and posted it in that thread and the replies began to change somewhat. I guess because it comes from the "horse's mouth". This writing pretty much covers what I think is changing or has changed things in the flyway. Throw in the rain we had this year and we now know the fate of our season. The average Joe in missouri and other northern states that has to compete with these areas, public or private have been chiming in.

"Wintering and Migration Areas"

"Setting hunting aside, the survival of migrating and wintering waterfowl appears to depend mainly on food supplies. Thus, as a first approximation, changes in available foraging habitat can be used to measure progress in meeting the needs of nonbreeding waterfowl. By this standard, many joint ventures have produced substantial gains in foraging habitat since 1986, including those that winter a significant percentage of North America's hunted waterfowl. For example, joint ventures in both the lower Mississippi Alluvial Valley and the Central Valley of California have reported large increases in foraging habitat, with food supplies now able to support 1970s populations in all but the driest winters".

Here's the entire piece on this subject. It's a good read.
https://www.ducks.org/Conservation/Cons ... cess/page3

[Darren]

Darren what’s a strong season? Clearly that varies from hunter to hunter. 2013/14 was my last strong season. My hunting group averaged 4+ ducks per man per hunt and we didn’t have to target divers or spoons. This year I would have shot anything at anytime lol

Have said it in multiple other discussions and the data below depicts it.......I have seen this before. In fact, as the numbers show, I've seen it worse! Thus as long as next season isn't exactly like this one, given normal/average winter temps and precipitation amounts, I am not going nuts, just yet, trying to fight legislation, bring torches and pitchforks to DU/Delta/LDWF/USFWS.

Since I make pretty close to same number of hunts each season starting with the 2009 season, that's where I started the comparison shown below. Thus a "strong" season has been the 200 mark for the regular duck season alone given comparable number of hunts.

Capture.JPG

Notes from 2009 season in my log:
1st Split Recap Dec 2009
Though we had a cold October, most of November was warm with hardly any fronts to bring in any new birds save for Thanksgiving week which was cold. This front showed some improvement around the state but still wasn’t stellar hunting. Water stayed high in BB marsh and kept pushing out the new arrivals as soon as they’d get to us. Harvested a total of 32 ducks for the 1st split, down from 85 of 2008.

Notes from 2013 season:
Jan. 27, 2014 – End of Season Recap – The 2nd split went much the same as the first, very poor with frighteningly few ducks in our marsh. Statewide the consensus was that it was a very poor season with aerial survey numbers telling the tale. This, despite record cold and one of the harshest winters in a long time including ice/snow events.
Obviously even with bouts of cold weather, hunting can be poor with too much rainfall, and in no way guarantees numbers making it to the state, as the aerial surveys indicated. Just goes to show, ducks will be ducks.

[Ducaholic]

Thanks...We on the same page. If I could average 3 ducks per man per hunt for the rest of my days I would take it.

[Darren]

Thanks...We on the same page. If I could average 3 ducks per man per hunt for the rest of my days I would take it.

Sure enough! And when you get a season like this one, where we averaged something like only 1.5 birds per man effort, it makes you realize that the average you're talking about, averaging 9 birds per hunt on a 3-man outing, would be darn good! I'm mad at them, yes, but I've never been one to be "limits or bust".

[SpinnerMan]

Thanks...We on the same page. If I could average 3 ducks per man per hunt for the rest of my days I would take it.

Sure enough! And when you get a season like this one, where we averaged something like only 1.5 birds per man effort, it makes you realize that the average you're talking about, averaging 9 birds per hunt on a 3-man outing, would be darn good! I'm mad at them, yes, but I've never been one to be "limits or bust".

Most duck hunters in the country would be very happy with a 1.5 bird per man-day effort. At my duck club, I average just over half of that at 0.84 ducks per day. This year was a very good year with 20 ducks and geese in 21 days (0.95). Best year was 38 in 21 days (1.81 per day). I say this because things are driven so much by expectation. Getting 1.5 ducks per day should be sufficient to have a good time hunting. Our diver guide this year on Erie is also a walleye guide the rest of the year. I guess there was discussion of lowering the limit on walleyes. Some were opposed. He saw it as a mixed blessing. His logic is that if the limit is 5 as it is now, he gets clients that are unhappy with 4 because they didn't get their limit. However, if the limit was 3, they would be happier with a 3 fish limit than they would be 1 fish short of the 5 fish limit. And many duck hunters won't admit it, but there is something psychological about measuring success relative to limits. Lower limits and the same number of ducks feels more successful. I've literally never gotten a limit of ducks on a DIY hunt and only ever got my limit on 3 guided hunts. Geese, I've got lots of 2 goose limits. When hunting is decent, I usually only shoot one goose out of the first flock just so I don't have my limit and often restrict myself to shooting birds that are feet down in the decoys. It isn't a race or a competition and I don't want it to be over. It's cost me limits on geese from time to time, but over all it has made for more enjoyable hunts.

Birds per day, yes it matters to how much fun you have, but maybe I'm just lucky that I enjoy it without killing that many because if I was unhappy with 2 or 3 ducks per day, I'd be watching TV because I've never done that well in my best season and I still love it.

[Rick]

When the point system was cut in half, such that we could no longer shoot a possible ten and had to settle for a possible five, there was a big uproar about losing support for the birds (including DU lobbying against it). But when the LDWF did a hunter satisfaction survey, presumably with the intent of showing as much, it turned out that hunter satisfaction had gone up. They weren't killing as many birds, but the were achieving the almighty limit more often.

[Deltaman]

Yep, got da limit................seems to mean more to most hunters............ psychologically.
Had not see the book (For Whom the Ducks Toll), before, and ordered a copy...............Thanks DE

[Ducaholic]

I personally wish the limit was reduced to 4. It’s rare that my 3-4 man groups kill full 6 bird limits anyhow. Like most we spend a lot of time trying which in turn over pressures ducks everywhere.

[Darren]

Yep, got da limit................seems to mean more to most hunters............ psychologically.

It's but ONE brand, and ONE example, but so representative of this culture you speak of. I happen to know the guy who founded this brand. He's just capitalizing on the wave, like so many others with similar startup (local) brands.

https://www.limitoutsupplyco.com

[Duck Engr]

When the point system was cut in half, such that we could no longer shoot a possible ten and had to settle for a possible five, there was a big uproar about losing support for the birds (including DU lobbying against it). But when the LDWF did a hunter satisfaction survey, presumably with the intent of showing as much, it turned out that hunter satisfaction had gone up. They weren't killing as many birds, but the were achieving the almighty limit more often.

Very interesting historical perspective Rick, especially the part about DU lobbying against the reduced bag limit!

[Duck Engr]

Had not see the book (For Whom the Ducks Toll), before, and ordered a m copy ...............Thanks DE

No problem, though as mentioned I didn’t find it myself, despite owning a copy I don’t think I’ve found time to read very far in.

[Rick]

...especially the part about DU lobbying against the reduced bag limit!

I was still writing at the time, and interviewed their then PR man, Jim Dudas, about their stand and was told it was the first time they ventured beyond focus on breeding ground habitat and did so because they believed so strongly in the harm it could do to the birds. I asked if there was historical precedent for said harm and was told that hunters had rallied behind DU in past times of population woes but it was feared this time would differ. The resulting article created enough stink that the late USFWS Senior Agent, Dave Hall, was mistakenly called on the carpet before (then Senator) John Breaux and others over it and, God bless him, told them he wished he had written it. Dudas wasn't with them for long after, and I'd hope, but don't know, that his candor didn't get him fired.

On a larger stage, then Field & Stream conservation editor, George Reiger, put the pencil to it and concluded that only 5 to 10% of the continent's waterfowl were ever apt to even see a DU project, much less were dependent on it, and wondered if putting the whole population in jeopardy for their sake was wise?

Pretty ironic that DU's taking too much credit for saving the ducks has resulted in them getting too much of the blame when times are tough.

[Darren]

Very interesting, that ^

On similar note, Dave's pal Mr. Goins and a few others will be joining Don Dubuc's radio show tomorrow morning. Will be entertaining to tune in, to say the least.

On this Sat Feb 23rd's 7-8am "More Outdoors Radio Show" on WWL105.3 FM HD 2 in metro New Orleans, LA we'll try answering the question so many waterfowl hunters are asking, "Where are the ducks?" Our guest panel includes Ducks Unlimited Chief Scientist Dr Tom Moorman, Delta Waterfowl President & Chief Scientist Dr Frank Rohwer and Flyway Federation Founder Josh Goins. We'll allot time for listeners calls at (504) 260-6368 and real time text messages at 870870.

Its a show I usually have a segment on most Saturday's of the season, but will be good to sit back and listen on this one. Don assures me they will not all be on at once, for fear of the inevitable spiral into chaos.

http://www.dontheoutdoorsguy.com/?fbcli ... HD7LPwq04k

[DComeaux]

...that is all.

[Duck Engr]

...especially the part about DU lobbying against the reduced bag limit!

I was still writing at the time, and interviewed their then PR man, Jim Dudas, about their stand and was told it was the first time they ventured beyond focus on breeding ground habitat and did so because they believed so strongly in the harm it could do to the birds. I asked if there was historical precedent for said harm and was told that hunters had rallied behind DU in past times of population woes but it was feared this time would differ.

Was he saying that if the bag limit was cut, folks would leave the sport, underfund DU, and the ducks would suffer because of DU’s underfunding?

[Duck Engr]

...especially the part about DU lobbying against the reduced bag limit!

and was told it was the first time they ventured beyond focus on breeding ground habitat

And whooooooooa nelly at Pandora’s box that was opened. Would be hard to claim DU was short stopping ducks if all their work was confined to the breeding grounds.

[Rick]

...especially the part about DU lobbying against the reduced bag limit!

I was still writing at the time, and interviewed their then PR man, Jim Dudas, about their stand and was told it was the first time they ventured beyond focus on breeding ground habitat and did so because they believed so strongly in the harm it could do to the birds. I asked if there was historical precedent for said harm and was told that hunters had rallied behind DU in past times of population woes but it was feared this time would differ.

Was he saying that if the bag limit was cut, folks would leave the sport, underfund DU, and the ducks would suffer because of DU’s underfunding?

Yes.

[Rick]

...especially the part about DU lobbying against the reduced bag limit!

and was told it was the first time they ventured beyond focus on breeding ground habitat

And whooooooooa nelly at Pandora’s box that was opened. Would be hard to claim DU was short stopping ducks if all their work was confined to the breeding grounds.

I meant that the battle over limits was said to be their first venture into the political side of bio-politics.

Their move into wintering habitat got its start when a pirate named Jerry Allen got canned by the National Wild Turkey Federation and created Waterfowl USA to appeal to hunters POed about all their DU money going to Canada, instead of more directly improving their local hunting. Jerry's pitch being that a significant portion of each chapter's fund raising was spent at that Chapter's discretion, and they featured things like chapter wood duck box bees and such. The Waterfowl USA bylaws made Jerry king for life and gave him a golden parachute whenever he decided to step out: basically, the fund Jerry Allen Society.

But Waterfowl USA seemed to be gaining enough traction that DU's MARSH Program followed suspiciously soon on its heels. And that's when the fight over how that program is applied started.

[Duck Engr]

...especially the part about DU lobbying against the reduced bag limit!

I was still writing at the time, and interviewed their then PR man, Jim Dudas, about their stand and was told it was the first time they ventured beyond focus on breeding ground habitat and did so because they believed so strongly in the harm it could do to the birds. I asked if there was historical precedent for said harm and was told that hunters had rallied behind DU in past times of population woes but it was feared this time would differ.

Was he saying that if the bag limit was cut, folks would leave the sport, underfund DU, and the ducks would suffer because of DU’s underfunding?

Yes.

Seems I’ve heard that again recently from many of the “hunting industry” guys.

[Duck Engr]

...especially the part about DU lobbying against the reduced bag limit!

and was told it was the first time they ventured beyond focus on breeding ground habitat

And whooooooooa nelly at Pandora’s box that was opened. Would be hard to claim DU was short stopping ducks if all their work was confined to the breeding grounds.

I meant that the battle over limits was said to be their first venture into the political side of bio-politics.

Their move into wintering habitat got its start when a pirate named Jerry Allen got canned by the National Wild Turkey Federation and created Waterfowl USA to appeal to hunters POed about all their DU money going to Canada, instead of more directly improving their local hunting. Jerry's pitch being that a significant portion of each chapter's fund raising was spent at that Chapter's discretion, and they featured things like chapter wood duck box bees and such. The Waterfowl USA bylaws made Jerry king for life and gave him a golden parachute whenever he decided to step out: basically, the fund Jerry Allen Society.

But Waterfowl USA seemed to be gaining enough traction that DU's MARSH Program followed suspiciously soon on its heels. And that's when the fight over how that program is applied started.

Very interesting historical perspective. Thanks Rick. Seems waterfowlers will complain no matter what work is being done, and then complain again when it changes to what they’d begged for before.

[Rick]

...especially the part about DU lobbying against the reduced bag limit!

I was still writing at the time, and interviewed their then PR man, Jim Dudas, about their stand and was told it was the first time they ventured beyond focus on breeding ground habitat and did so because they believed so strongly in the harm it could do to the birds. I asked if there was historical precedent for said harm and was told that hunters had rallied behind DU in past times of population woes but it was feared this time would differ.

Was he saying that if the bag limit was cut, folks would leave the sport, underfund DU, and the ducks would suffer because of DU’s underfunding?

Yes.

Seems I’ve heard that again recently from many of the “hunting industry” guys.

It's not just the "industry" guys. Seems to me that the trick to extending both the birds' and hunting's viability as long as possible is to walk the line between what's best for the birds and the interests of those supporting it as best we can. Think I'm repeating myself, but the less the birds are viewed as a desirable resource, the more their needs will be viewed as impediments to other interests that will gain the leverage of popular support.

Damned if we hunt 'em and damned if we don't.