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Was long in the habit of auditioning a new call, or two, every season but fell out of it a couple or three ago. Well, at least until last fall, when spurred by the never-ending need for greater leverage at distance, I took a fit to give another cutdown (my fourth) a go. Couldn't have been much more disappointed over what a poor match its maker's tuning and I were. But not wanting to mess with mid-season changes from my habitual J-frame air presentation to what's best produced cutdown "bark" and having long ago learned not to judge a call before tuning it for personal "fit," I set the offending cutdown and extra reeds I'd ordered for that purpose aside as an "after season" project.

Anticipating further disappointment, I then put it off until a couple days ago - and have since been suffering the pain of having a new call I'm incredibly anxious to try on game I've no access to. Grrr...

But it's something to look forward to over the long months ahead, which is a very good thing.

Rick wrote:Was long in the habit of auditioning a new call, or two, every season but fell out of it a couple or three ago. Well, at least until last fall, when spurred by the never-ending need for greater leverage at distance, I took a fit to give another cutdown (my fourth) a go. Couldn't have been much more disappointed over what a poor match its maker's tuning and I were. But not wanting to mess with mid-season changes from my habitual J-frame air presentation to what's best produced cutdown "bark" and having long ago learned not to judge a call before tuning it for personal "fit," I set the offending cutdown and extra reeds I'd ordered for that purpose aside as an "after season" project.

Anticipating further disappointment, I then put it off until a couple days ago - and have since been suffering the pain of having a new call I'm incredibly anxious to try on game I've no access to. Grrr...

But it's something to look forward to over the long months ahead, which is a very good thing.

Hey I tried not adjusting form and just can't do a cutdown in j-frame way.
Cutdowns are freaky different. You need big air.
Which one did you got?

Ricky Spanish wrote:Hey I tried not adjusting form and just can't do a cutdown in j-frame way.
Cutdowns are freaky different. You need big air.
Which one did you got?

To0 lazy to type it all out again, but my posts in this thread might help you get those extra thick reeds going: https://www.duckhuntingchat.com/threads/singleton-la-cutdown.914713/#post-9914185

I tune/trim reeds until I can get by with a wide open, j-frame, presentation, but I have to gate the notes similar to the Echo video to get cutdown "bark" and the ability to carry on as loud and long as sometimes need be.

Rick wrote:

Ricky Spanish wrote:Hey I tried not adjusting form and just can't do a cutdown in j-frame way.
Cutdowns are freaky different. You need big air.
Which one did you got?

To0 lazy to type it all out again, but my posts in this thread might help you get those extra thick reeds going: https://www.duckhuntingchat.com/threads/singleton-la-cutdown.914713/#post-9914185

I tune/trim reeds until I can get by with a wide open, j-frame, presentation, but I have to gate the notes similar to the Echo video to get cutdown "bark" and the ability to carry on as loud and long as sometimes need be.

I just started using the letter K and the number 5...
This is the electric company.
The first time I blew that custom d2 olt 20+ mallards landed in the hole but....
But it was ten minutes before shooting time.

Damn ducks have watches

Rick it took me two full off seasons of toying with one of his calls to get it where I’d even consider grabbing it during the season, and I still find myself drifting toward the old mondo when surprised.

I think that once you get decent on whatever cutdown you use that you might go back to the mvp and find that it actually performs well when blown like a cutdown but that's just me maybe.
Someone with big Aztec lungs might disagree.
Good luck and don't give up.
Cutdowns are hard.

Duck Engr wrote:Rick it took me two full off seasons of toying with one of his calls to get it where I’d even consider grabbing it during the season, and I still find myself drifting toward the old mondo when surprised.

Can't say I ever used my Mondo "when surprised". Always looked for its potentially advantage as a long distance and/or wicked weather breaking call when the otherwise much more versatile and fun to run MVP was falling short, but I found no appreciable advantage over three seasons of trying. (Later did so PDQ with Alan Stanley's Deceiver.) And I'd add "Never mind what basic physics tells us." if it didn't still bug me enough to give another thick-reeded cutdown its chance. Could be I just didn't run the Mondo with the same bird-breaking confidence I have in the loud J-frames?

Been wishing I still had that old Mondo for comparison, but it's gone down the road. Know I feel like I've this Singleton LA better dialed in and showing better tonal range. Might even say "more fun to run". Could just be in the tuning - or my head.

Rick wrote:

Duck Engr wrote:Rick it took me two full off seasons of toying with one of his calls to get it where I’d even consider grabbing it during the season, and I still find myself drifting toward the old mondo when surprised.

Can't say I ever used my Mondo "when surprised". Always looked for its potentially advantage as a long distance and/or wicked weather breaking call when the otherwise much more versatile and fun to run MVP was falling short, but I found no appreciable advantage over three seasons of trying. (Later did so PDQ with Alan Stanley's Deceiver.) And I'd add "Never mind what basic physics tells us." if it didn't still bug me enough to give another thick-reeded cutdown its chance. Could be I just didn't run the Mondo with the same bird-breaking confidence I have in the loud J-frames?

Been wishing I still had that old Mondo for comparison, but it's gone down the road. Know I feel like I've this Singleton LA better dialed in and showing better tonal range. Might even say "more fun to run". Could just be in the tuning - or my head.

I use mine far, medium, and close, but that’s in the woods or on rivers and sloughs. I’ll run through my 2-3 calls on my lanyard early on in a hunt to see what they’re best reacting to then use that one for breaking, shaping, and finishing.

Don’t know that I’d even use my mondo in your scenario though. I think your loud j frames have your setup pretty well figured out. There’s a fine line between striving for improvement and not reinventing the wheel I suppose.

Duck Engr wrote:I use mine far, medium, and close, but that’s in the woods or on rivers and sloughs. I’ll run through my 2-3 calls on my lanyard early on in a hunt to see what they’re best reacting to then use that one for breaking, shaping, and finishing.

Don’t know that I’d even use my mondo in your scenario though. I think your loud j frames have your setup pretty well figured out. There’s a fine line between striving for improvement and not reinventing the wheel I suppose.

Given my opportunities, it's pretty embarrassing to consider how long it's sometimes taken me to learn useful new things. And all the more so when it's been what I thought I knew that was holding me back. The birds I can't get in front of the guns, rather than the ones that fall before them, are too often the last things on my mind before drifting off at night - and keep me trying to reinvent that wheel and add another useful tool to the box.

At very worst, it's a new toy to play with.

Rick wrote:

Duck Engr wrote:I use mine far, medium, and close, but that’s in the woods or on rivers and sloughs. I’ll run through my 2-3 calls on my lanyard early on in a hunt to see what they’re best reacting to then use that one for breaking, shaping, and finishing.

Don’t know that I’d even use my mondo in your scenario though. I think your loud j frames have your setup pretty well figured out. There’s a fine line between striving for improvement and not reinventing the wheel I suppose.

Given my opportunities, it's pretty embarrassing to consider how long it's sometimes taken me to learn useful new things. And all the more so when it's been what I thought I knew that was holding me back. The birds I can't get in front of the guns, rather than the ones that fall before them, are too often the last things on my mind before drifting off at night - and keep me trying to reinvent that wheel and add another useful tool to the box.

At very worst, it's a new toy to play with.

Triggered an odd memory.
We used to literally fight over who uses what hammer.
The estwing guys assured everyone that an estwing with a waffle head is the best until you're actually using one and hit your wrist with it. Ouch.
Vaughn... fiberglass handle.
We used to fight about hammer handles too.
A prybar is a prybar...
A duck call is a tool like a hammer.
Quack

Rick wrote:
At very worst, it's a new toy to play with.

This is a good attitude... Confidence kills birds, I think you'll be hard pressed to overcome the confidence in those j-frames...

Glad to hear of your offseason excitement, Rick. The ol MVP sure seems to consistently do some damage, tho.

Ricky Spanish wrote:Triggered an odd memory.
We used to literally fight over who uses what hammer.
The estwing guys assured everyone that an estwing with a waffle head is the best until you're actually using one and hit your wrist with it. Ouch.
Vaughn... fiberglass handle.
We used to fight about hammer handles too.
A prybar is a prybar...
A duck call is a tool like a hammer.
Quack

Have long forgotten his first name, but one of the Estwings was the first of several CEO's through our camp that I recall noting that he hired the right people and tried to stay out of their way. Gave me a hatchet that was great for cutting starter chips from a resin hardened pine stump but wouldn't have been worth a flip to have cut down the tree it came from. I'd not want to drive spikes with a finish hammer, work on farm implements with a roofing pry bar or try to break tall flights with a small-bored call.

Which isn't to say I don't straddle the line between obsessive and anal about some of the tools of my trade. Fellow who knows his way around a DR-85 could finish an awful lot of the same birds I do.

5 stand wrote:...Confidence kills birds, I think you'll be hard pressed to overcome the confidence in those j-frames...

True, that. My confidence in what I've been using is a disadvantage every new call through my hands must overcome.

Darren wrote:...The ol MVP sure seems to consistently do some damage, tho.

Tough to beat for range of both sorts and nimble handling. Doesn't do everything, or perhaps anything, as well as can be, but does an awful lot of things, from screaming hails to pintail purrs, pretty dang well.

The MVP is completely adequate in green timber.
Blown like a cutdown you can push it to the limit and it's good.

I've got more than one lanyard but this one is pretty damn good.

Calling with confidence because where you sitting has been good over time seems to be what works best. Some days being better than others because no matter how good you think you are the ducks have the final say.

Ducaholic wrote:Calling with confidence because where you sitting has been good over time seems to be what works best. Some days being better than others because no matter how good you think you are the ducks have the final say.

Most important calling lesson I ever got from a human came in my first year of guiding, 1984, from a Eunice clothing store owner on his first duck hunt. (Never saw him again, but remember his name was Dave Steck, thanks to the impression his observation made.)

Long story greatly shortened, I'd been pissed enough at a fellow the next blind over to call everything off them and to us, until he and his guide, who I didn't care for, either, got disgusted and left. After which, I couldn't call a hungry dog to a ribeye. Begged and pleaded as best I could to no avail, and finally admitted defeat aloud. At which point, Dave allowed that, while he didn't know the first thing about calling ducks, it sure sounded to him like I'd quit telling them what to do and started asking. So I faked it and made it, and he, his young son and I finished filling out.

Haven't always been sharp enough to remember that lesson, but its turned many a duck response tide in many a location over the years since.

Location and the birds' predisposition will always play a role, but if you want to see them become far more important, call with temerity.

Hot damn Rick Hall you never let me down. My vocabulary is better for having known you. (Temerity) Never in my life have I heard that work used until today

Awesome story and lesson Rick!!!!........and I had to google temerity too

A first for me too.

Now if I could just learn to spell word correctly lol

Ducaholic wrote:Now if I could just learn to spell word correctly lol

Beware of Todd.
Todd is a chiropractor that thinks everyone is dumber than him. Uses lots of 50-dollar words to baffle and confuse you (and make him appear intelligent).
That guy can spout off words faster than you can look them up.
It's all about impressing the competition so we take a simple concept like point n shoot and turn it into rocket science. Maybe by this season we can cure it.

Fell down a youtube duck hunting hole and thought I'd share the misery with my friends:

Kirk was one of the first to bring a good quality (for the time) camera into the public woods. He’s milked that footage from the 90s for a long time selling this and that.

Duck Engr wrote:Kirk was one of the first to bring a good quality (for the time) camera into the public woods. He’s milked that footage from the 90s for a long time selling this and that.

if it's from the '90s, it's well after my last real woods hunts in '84, but it hit my visual spot just right: little wade-in opening where mallards fell in through the trees like leaves.

Here's one for the auditory senses (can FF to the 2 minute mark):


In another video the fellow completes his stalk and shoots one when they jump - thus screwing himself into a long wait for enough returning birds to kill his other three. Much preferred my old MO of slipping in and pushing them out without a shot, or most knowing it was more than a fire drill. Seldom took long for birds to start trickling back in.

Rick wrote:Fell down a youtube duck hunting hole and thought I'd share the misery with my friends:

For a string of ducks to dump into the tiny hole at the Crossroads was an everyday occurrence for an entire season. It took me two years to give up hope that they'd be back.
Was pretty simple killing limits with 18 old flambeaus and a spinner. It really was that easy back in 2012. Picking out your 4 greenheads was a piece of cake.

Makes my heart sing to see them drop through those trees like that!!!!!!

Deltaman wrote:Makes my heart sing to see them drop through those trees like that!!!!!!

All God's waterfowlers should get to see - and hear - it.

But on the flip side, a slow mornings in the trees got claustrophobic PDQ. Couldn't say with certainty if it cost more ops than it created, but know the itch to go scout generally won out faster in the woods than marsh.

Rick wrote:

Deltaman wrote:Makes my heart sing to see them drop through those trees like that!!!!!!

All God's waterfowlers should get to see - and hear - it.

But on the flip side, a slow mornings in the trees got claustrophobic PDQ. Couldn't say with certainty if it cost more ops than it created, but know the itch to go scout generally won out faster in the woods than marsh.

It's addictive, gives you a big head, then you're back to where you started. These days getting a big bunch to come in like that is almost hopeless but I continue going and hoping.

These days you have to be satisfied with getting buzzed by groups of wood ducks. It's enough to keep me going but it's getting tougher.
The peaks and valleys of freelancing on public are hard to take.
Mallard ducks are fickle and call shy on day 1 in Arkansas. I suspect one year I'll get lucky and everything will go right for the millet crop they plant.
If that is right the NWR holds millions of ducks.
Lately it's just hundreds of thousands.
It's hard to not wonder about how an Ohio train wreck will effect my fall activities.
I've already traced the water path...the wreck was about ten miles from the Ohio River and the rules...shit goes down hill...
The Ohio meets the Mississippi at Cairo.
That's where I cross it.
Big Lake is about 20 miles from the big river.
Bound to be some weirdo ducks end up there.
I wonder...

Ducaholic wrote:Calling with confidence because where you sitting has been good over time seems to be what works best. Some days being better than others because no matter how good you think you are the ducks have the final say.

Have to agree the ducks have the final say. Some folk have not caught on to that yet. It can be very difficult with a Federal Game Warden walking up from behind while they are on a string and circling low(lost a chance at five wigeon that way). Couldn't figure why they would not finish, but kept turning them back until movement out of the corner of my eye caught the untoughtful and rude guy.

quote from Rick, "At which point, Dave allowed that, while he didn't know the first thing about calling ducks, it sure sounded to him like I'd quit telling them what to do and started asking." unquote

It is not that easy to stop telling them what to do, even if the guy 200 yards away wishes one would stop. Placing ducks right where we want them is our job, is it not? How does one stop telling them what to do?