The muzzle loader thread-

The muzzle loader thread-

Postby Tomkat » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:45 pm

I dont know much about ML's, I have shot a few and thats it.

Because of Kansas's early ML season, the large deer herd around me, and a little disagreement with my neighbor, I have decided it would be a good idea for me to get into ML hunting.

My idea is simple- put in a food plot, build a nice ground blind, and then try to legally shoot a good buck in ML season prior to bow season. All of my shots will be under 100 yards.

I don't think I care for an in line ML. I dont want a flint lock. I would prefer conical bullets over a lead ball.

And next to Assateague and GKR, I am the cheapest bastard in the USA.

Help me our WFF....what do I need to know? Advice and opinions would be appreciated.
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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby assateague » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:21 pm

The Kentucky rifle I built shoots very, very well. But it is made to shoot a patched round ball. I didn't shoot a deer with it yet only because I have a bucket-load of crop damage tags, to shoot deer with a rifle year round, so it's sort of silly for me. The satisfaction that I got from building it and shooting it is pretty good, and when I do finally kill a deer with it, I'm gonna be a happy man. You said you don't want an inline, but be aware that you can get a TC inline capable of shooting very accurately out to 200 yards for less than $200, especially this time of year (on clearance at Walmart). I enjoy shooting mine, but so far it's only been in the woods with me about 10 times, and I haven't had a decent shot. Then I say "eff this, I've got 30 rifle tags, this is dumb" :lol: It'll shoot a 2 inch group at 50 yards with a patched round ball.
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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby Tomkat » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:27 pm

assateague wrote:The Kentucky rifle I built shoots very, very well. But it is made to shoot a patched round ball. I didn't shoot a deer with it yet only because I have a bucket-load of crop damage tags, to shoot deer with a rifle year round, so it's sort of silly for me. The satisfaction that I got from building it and shooting it is pretty good, and when I do finally kill a deer with it, I'm gonna be a happy man. You said you don't want an inline, but be aware that you can get a TC inline capable of shooting very accurately out to 200 yards for less than $200, especially this time of year (on clearance at Walmart). I enjoy shooting mine, but so far it's only been in the woods with me about 10 times, and I haven't had a decent shot. Then I say "eff this, I've got 30 rifle tags, this is dumb" :lol: It'll shoot a 2 inch group at 50 yards with a patched round ball.


AT, let me ask you this-

Are in line ML's cheaper to buy ammo for? Which one takes the least maintenance?

Truthfully, my shots are going to be pretty close and I will have a nice rest.
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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby assateague » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:40 pm

I had a TC before I got the Kentucky Rifle. The maintenance is 100% the same, but is far easier on the inlines, simply because the breech unscrews, and you get a straight shot for the cleaning rod. I think I paid $15 or so for 100 round balls, and about $3 for 100 pre-lubed patches. You're not going to get anywhere near that many sabot rounds for an inline for that price. The powder itself is a little cheaper, but I'm not sure how much, since I always bought pyrodex pellets for the inline, and use the powder for the Kentucky rifle. I'm sure the powder form is cheaper, but I don;t know by how much. I have however started making my own black powder, but won't need it for a while, since I have lots of powder left in the store bought containers. Just wanted to make sure I could do it. Primers are about $10 per hundred (I think), and roughly $8 for percussion caps, so no big difference there. (My prices may be a little off, since I haven't bought pellets or primers for a couple years) I bought a round ball mold last year, and make my own from scrap lead (which is actually pretty hard to come by around here), so there's not much cost there. I think the mold was about $30, or a little over the cost of 200 round balls or 50 sabot rounds.

I guess ultimately it depends on what you're hunting and your shots. And ask yourself this- if you go traditional, and come across the buck of a lifetime at 140 yards, will you be pissed if you have a cap and ball instead of inline, or will you be alright with that? Something to think about.
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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby Tomkat » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:55 pm

It won't be possible to take a 140 yard shot where I plan to hunt (my own land). I am going to set up an ambush over a food plot on a clearing on top of my hill. It is legal in Kansas to bait deer... It wll be more like 60-70 yards.

I have all ready missed the buck of a life time- twice. Naw it wont bother me. I dont take my deer hunting all that serious any more. I like to be out side, I like to shoot stuff, and more than anything, I want to hog up the quality deer from my neighbors bow hunting friend that cost me a handy coyote calling spot. I have a game cam, will soon have a food plot and a comfy stand waiting for me to drink coffee in of a late summer evening. It may take me all of 10 minutes to get into position once I leave the house, including setting the gun up on the sand bags... Just me and my cheap ass smoke pole.

Are there any brands I should avoid? I am thinking a SS barrel and synthetic stock side lock might be a good way to go.
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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby assateague » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:17 pm

I honestly don't think you'll be able to get a SS barrel on a side lock gun, at least not for very cheap. I haven't had a stainless barrel on any of mine, and haven't had problems. Just have to clean it right away, then coat it with lube, and remember to swab out the lube before taking it out hunting. I loved my Thompson Center- they can get high dollar if you let them, but their bottom of the line base model has basically all the features of the more expensive ones. I had an old CVA a while back, but it was nowhere as easy to prime and clean as the TC. If you go the inline route, the extra $40 for a TC is worth it, IMO.
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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby Eric Haynes » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:55 pm

Tomkat wrote:It won't be possible to take a 140 yard shot where I plan to hunt (my own land). I am going to set up an ambush over a food plot on a clearing on top of my hill. It is legal in Kansas to bait deer... It wll be more like 60-70 yards.

I have all ready missed the buck of a life time- twice. Naw it wont bother me. I dont take my deer hunting all that serious any more. I like to be out side, I like to shoot stuff, and more than anything, I want to hog up the quality deer from my neighbors bow hunting friend that cost me a handy coyote calling spot. I have a game cam, will soon have a food plot and a comfy stand waiting for me to drink coffee in of a late summer evening. It may take me all of 10 minutes to get into position once I leave the house, including setting the gun up on the sand bags... Just me and my cheap ass smoke pole.

Are there any brands I should avoid? I am thinking a SS barrel and synthetic stock side lock might be a good way to go.


I have a TC. It's all I hunt deer with, all season. I use Pyrodex pellets and whatever cheap sabots are on sale. My gun also uses 209 primers, which are wayy easier than caps. It really is pretty crazy on how accurate they are today over 15 years ago. I've seen a ball do some pretty crazy acrobatics, but they have used them for years and years, and they still work. If I remember correctly, it cost me $20 for 50 sabots last time I picked them up. 209 primers were $5 for 100, $25 for 100 Pyrodex pellets.
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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby jarbo03 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:02 pm

I'll take you shooting this spring, ML is fun shooting. With a scope, which you can now use in KS, 200 yards wouldn't scare me a bit. Eric done told you everything you need.

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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby Eric Haynes » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:12 pm

jarbo03 wrote:I'll take you shooting this spring, ML is fun shooting. With a scope, which you can now use in KS, 200 yards wouldn't scare me a bit. Eric done told you everything you need.

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Yup, I trust my muzzle loader like a rifle. I am extremely comfortable with it when it comes to distance and the 250gr sabot makes quick work of deer. Haven't had one budge yet after the shot.
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, "If I live, I will kill you. If I die, you are forgiven." Such is the rule of honor.
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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby Tomkat » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:43 pm

Thank u Jerry. This is past the idea stage, I am already looking at them.
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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby Tomkat » Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:28 am

This looks a little more modern that what I had in mind

Image

I shot one of these, didnt like it at all.

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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby Eric Haynes » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:45 pm

How come you dont want an inline? Tons easier to clean and 209s are a million times more reliable. I have the TC Encore PH. Middle of the road and the trajectory on it is about the same as a 30-06. For how i shoot anyways.

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Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, "If I live, I will kill you. If I die, you are forgiven." Such is the rule of honor.
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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby Eric Haynes » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:48 pm

Same as mine but mine is black synth and a smaller scope.

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Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, "If I live, I will kill you. If I die, you are forgiven." Such is the rule of honor.
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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby Tomkat » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:43 pm

Eric Haynes wrote:How come you dont want an inline? Tons easier to clean and 209s are a million times more reliable. I have the TC Encore PH. Middle of the road and the trajectory on it is about the same as a 30-06. For how i shoot anyways.

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Probably ignorance on my part. Easier to clean was an attention getter. Also, I dont want to spend a hell of a lot of $$ on what ever I get. Maybe Jarbo has one I can shoot and get up to speed.
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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby jarbo03 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:56 pm

They are inline, you will like them.

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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby Tomkat » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:45 pm

I have a NEF Handyrifle in .223. For $150 I can send it to the factory and they will return it to me with a 26" .50 cal barrel and ramrod.

But I am keeping an open mind.
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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby Eric Haynes » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:56 pm

Tomkat wrote:I have a NEF Handyrifle in .223. For $150 I can send it to the factory and they will return it to me with a 26" .50 cal barrel and ramrod.

But I am keeping an open mind.

Quit being stingee and open that wallet! No need to cheat yourself out of a reliable firearm.

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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby assateague » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:27 pm

Tomkat wrote:I have a NEF Handyrifle in .223. For $150 I can send it to the factory and they will return it to me with a 26" .50 cal barrel and ramrod.

But I am keeping an open mind.


I got the Thompson Center Z5 Omega at Walmart for $180. This was a couple years ago, but it's my understanding that they're still right around $200 for the "performance pack", which comes with about 15 sabots, cleaning supplies, and a scope (which wasn't bad for a package scope). I'd check out Walmart first if there's one around.
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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby Tomkat » Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:42 pm

Thank you Mr Cheap Assa, now you are talking. This dont look too hard to figure out, I like the idea you can be REALLY cheap and use open sights and not have to buy another scope.

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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby assateague » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:19 pm

I shot that gun at a target 275 yards away fairly regularly. Like every time I took it out to shoot. I would have to hold it over about 2 feet, maybe a little more, but I got to the point I could hit a 8" circle fairly regular. I probably wouldn't have had to hold over so far, since that gun will take 3 pellets (150 gr), but I never cared to shoot it with that much. Stuck to 100 grains of powder. It was a very accurate gun, and fun to shoot. Not as fun as my Kentucky rifle, but definitely more fun to clean.
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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby Eric Haynes » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:30 pm

assateague wrote:I shot that gun at a target 275 yards away fairly regularly. Like every time I took it out to shoot. I would have to hold it over about 2 feet, maybe a little more, but I got to the point I could hit a 8" circle fairly regular. I probably wouldn't have had to hold over so far, since that gun will take 3 pellets (150 gr), but I never cared to shoot it with that much. Stuck to 100 grains of powder. It was a very accurate gun, and fun to shoot. Not as fun as my Kentucky rifle, but definitely more fun to clean.

Hunting, I only use 2 pellets. Ive tried a few hot loads just messing around, can be fun with light grain sabots.

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Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, "If I live, I will kill you. If I die, you are forgiven." Such is the rule of honor.
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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby Eric Haynes » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:31 pm

Tomkat wrote:Thank you Mr Cheap Assa, now you are talking. This dont look too hard to figure out, I like the idea you can be REALLY cheap and use open sights and not have to buy another scope.


I use open sights for early ML and a scope for late.

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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby Tomkat » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:41 am

I think these 50 year old eyes can still use open sights for a 60 yard shot on a deer. Actually that is part of the challenge/question for me.
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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby Tomkat » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:07 pm

I have read lots and lots of stuff about ML guns lately.

I am always looking for a deal....but all things being equal, I think the Thompson Center Omega would serve my needs very well. I will end up spending more than I really wanted too, but in the end, I think I will get a decent American made product for a fair price.

If anyone has one they want to trade for a .223 rifle....
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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby tucker » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:51 pm

If Kansas allows smokeless, it's the way to go.
I haven't cleaned my Savage 110-ML in two years now.
They do kinda violate you tightwad policy though.

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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby assateague » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:54 pm

That thing has an Accu-trigger?
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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby Tomkat » Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:51 pm

Tucker,
We can do in line smokeless. I will probably go that route, but I am determined to stay within my cheapness guidelines.

There is a deal out there waiting for me....
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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby tucker » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:05 pm

assateague wrote:That thing has an Accu-trigger?


Yes it does. It's quite wonderful.
Some guys have them tricked out with Pacnor .45 barrels, duplex loads (two different burn rates - think two stage rocket), and sabotless bullets.
You are only limited by your imagination and your wallet.
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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby Tomkat » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:22 pm

tucker wrote:
assateague wrote:That thing has an Accu-trigger?


Yes it does. It's quite wonderful.
Some guys have them tricked out with Pacnor .45 barrels, duplex loads (two different burn rates - think two stage rocket), and sabotless bullets.
You are only limited by your imagination and your wallet.


To me that is the beauty of ML hunting. You can go hi tech, or be a cheap ass and still kill some deer.
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Re: The muzzle loader thread-

Postby assateague » Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:03 pm

I love the Accu-trigger. My .25-06 had one, and it was amazing. I've never shot any "high dollar" triggers, but I've shot a lot of rifles, and the Accu-trigger made that thing far more accurate than it should have been.
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