New rifle choices

Re: New rifle choices

Postby Tomkat » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:37 pm

One of my Savage rifles with a Redfield 4x12 scope. Good glass for the money.

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Re: New rifle choices

Postby sws002 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:42 pm

Tomkat wrote:One of my Savage rifles with a Redfield 4x12 scope. Good glass for the money.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1398742608.190606.jpg


ImageUploadedByTapatalk1398742664.788294.jpg


This reminds me. Ruger is offering the American as a scope package this year, will be topped with a Redfield Revolution (the American made one) and is offered in 7mm-08. You couldn't go wrong with it or the Savage.
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby Tomkat » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:42 pm

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1398742779.866294.jpg


The afore mentioned Savage .243
This gun has been unreal, it shoots any load combination I want to feed it. Always consistent.

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Re: New rifle choices

Postby sws002 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:43 pm

Tomkat wrote:
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1398742779.866294.jpg


The afore mentioned Savage .243
This gun has been unreal, it shoots any load combination I want to feed it. Always consistent.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1398742965.635135.jpg


Outta sell it if you can't hit the center of the target!
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby AKPirate » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:52 pm

sws002 wrote:
Tomkat wrote:
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1398742779.866294.jpg


The afore mentioned Savage .243
This gun has been unreal, it shoots any load combination I want to feed it. Always consistent.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1398742965.635135.jpg


Outta sell it if you can't hit the center of the target!


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Re: New rifle choices

Postby RonE » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:55 pm

Haven't followed it for a long, long time but as I recall most of the most successful bench-rest shooters use 6mm bullets. The .243 uses a 6mm bullet. I have always striven to find something that is readily available, over the counter, and if I wanted to improve upon that, I could always hand load. There isn't any animal in the contiguous states than cannot be killed easily with a 30-06 regardless of what is better or worse, longer or shorter action (How much faster is it to get off a second shot with a .308 as compared to the same gun with a long action in 30-06? In a hunting situation, it probably cannot be measured.)

Many, many deer in Texas are shot with .22 caliber center fire rifles but I personally believe that something larger is quite superior because it usually involves a heavier bullet that will often penetrate when a light fast bullet will explode on impact. So, if you want something that is fast (flat shooting) and has a bullet that is sufficient to penetrate bone, I believe that the .243 is the answer. If I were going to shoot a 7mm it would be the 7mm Rem Mag which I have used to kill many mule deer and elk.

There seems to be some resurgence in the "Westerner" but I digress.
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby AKPirate » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:57 pm

RonE wrote:Haven't followed it for a long, long time but as I recall most of the most successful bench-rest shooters use 6mm bullets. The .243 uses a 6mm bullet. I have always striven to find something that is readily available, over the counter, and if I wanted to improve upon that, I could always hand load. There isn't any animal in the contiguous states than cannot be killed easily with a 30-06 regardless of what is better or worse, longer or shorter action (How much faster is it to get off a second shot with a .308 as compared to the same gun with a long action in 30-06? In a hunting situation, it probably cannot be measured.)

Many, many deer in Texas are shot with .22 caliber center fire rifles but I personally believe that something larger is quite superior because it usually involves a heavier bullet that will often penetrate when a light fast bullet will explode on impact. So, if you want something that is fast (flat shooting) and has a bullet that is sufficient to penetrate bone, I believe that the .243 is the answer. If I were going to shoot a 7mm it would be the 7mm Rem Mag which I have used to kill many mule deer and elk.

There seems to be some resurgence in the "Westerner" but I digress.



Agree on the 7MM Rem Mag if he only wants one caliber for all animals in the lower 48.
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby sws002 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:59 pm

Need to quit fucking around and just get a 7.21 Lazzeroni Firebird.
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby RonE » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:04 pm

sws002 wrote:Need to quit fucking around and just get a 7.21 Lazzeroni Firebird.


Or a 300 Pegasus

Or: http://www.lazzeroni.com/ct_reload_warbird.htm where 180 gr bullets leave at 3,500 fps and only cost $129/box of 20 but not usually available at WalMart or Academy.
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby sws002 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:09 pm

RonE wrote:
sws002 wrote:Need to quit fucking around and just get a 7.21 Lazzeroni Firebird.


Or a 300 Pegasus


7.82 Lazzeroni Warbird puts it to shame. 100 fps faster and 200 ft/lb more energy at 500 yards.
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby R. Chapman » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:20 pm

Flightstopper wrote:Anybody have any experience with Howa?

My Smith/Wesson 1500 is the original Howa and was made by Howa in the 70s. The 1500 action is one strong action. Accurate as well though lock time isn't as good as a Remington 700; still a good gun.
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby R. Chapman » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:26 pm

sws002 wrote:
RonE wrote:
sws002 wrote:Need to quit fucking around and just get a 7.21 Lazzeroni Firebird.


Or a 300 Pegasus


7.82 Lazzeroni Warbird puts it to shame. 100 fps faster and 200 ft/lb more energy at 500 yards.

Lazzeroni cartridges are just fucking ridiculous and useless.
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby sws002 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:29 pm

R. Chapman wrote:
sws002 wrote:
RonE wrote:
sws002 wrote:Need to quit fucking around and just get a 7.21 Lazzeroni Firebird.


Or a 300 Pegasus


7.82 Lazzeroni Warbird puts it to shame. 100 fps faster and 200 ft/lb more energy at 500 yards.

Lazzeroni cartridges are just fucking ridiculous and useless.


You misspelled badass.
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby R. Chapman » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:38 pm

Innefecient is what they are. You can get the same performance ad velocity with a .30-378 Wby Mag using the slowest powder that's still safe to achieve the velocity that the Warbird or whatever it is (Lazzeroni's biggest .30 cal magnum). Plus barrel life and recoil would be horrendous.
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby sws002 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:48 pm

R. Chapman wrote:Innefecient is what they are. You can get the same performance ad velocity with a .30-378 Wby Mag using the slowest powder that's still safe to achieve the velocity that the Warbird or whatever it is (Lazzeroni's biggest .30 cal magnum). Plus barrel life and recoil would be horrendous.


Are you fucking high? You can't argue efficiency when talking magnums. It takes exponentially more powder to achieve minimal gains in any given caliber, efficiency is for the birds, and Lazzeroni doesn't build anything based on efficiency. Secondly, the .30-378 is a bitch comparatively speaking, doesn't even match up to the Pegasus. 500 yard velocity/energy on the Weatherby is 2471/2441, Lazzeroni is 2643/2794. Of course barrel life is going to be horrendous, nobody buys a Lazzeroni to put 3,000 rounds through it, that's $18,000 worth of ammo.
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby Feelin' Fowl » Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:58 pm

sws002 wrote:
Tomkat wrote:
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1398742779.866294.jpg


The afore mentioned Savage .243
This gun has been unreal, it shoots any load combination I want to feed it. Always consistent.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1398742965.635135.jpg


Outta sell it if you can't hit the center of the target!


:grin:
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby R. Chapman » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:35 am

sws002 wrote:
R. Chapman wrote:Innefecient is what they are. You can get the same performance ad velocity with a .30-378 Wby Mag using the slowest powder that's still safe to achieve the velocity that the Warbird or whatever it is (Lazzeroni's biggest .30 cal magnum). Plus barrel life and recoil would be horrendous.


Are you fucking high? You can't argue efficiency when talking magnums. It takes exponentially more powder to achieve minimal gains in any given caliber, efficiency is for the birds, and Lazzeroni doesn't build anything based on efficiency. Secondly, the .30-378 is a bitch comparatively speaking, doesn't even match up to the Pegasus. 500 yard velocity/energy on the Weatherby is 2471/2441, Lazzeroni is 2643/2794. Of course barrel life is going to be horrendous, nobody buys a Lazzeroni to put 3,000 rounds through it, that's $18,000 worth of ammo.

Now do you really think you are going to notice 200 FPS? I'd be damned if you could at those velocities.
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby Flightstopper » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:45 am

Can we stay on topic with this one please? Had a good thread going and I have no intention of getting either of those calibers.
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby R. Chapman » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:14 am

So what's your max amount you are willing to spend bearing in mind the optic price as well?
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby Tomkat » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:24 am

Flightstopper wrote:Can we stay on topic with this one please? Had a good thread going and I have no intention of getting either of those calibers.
FS what do you think of the suggestions I have made? Any questions or concerns?
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby Flightstopper » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:59 am

Tomkat wrote:
Flightstopper wrote:Can we stay on topic with this one please? Had a good thread going and I have no intention of getting either of those calibers.
FS what do you think of the suggestions I have made? Any questions or concerns?


I do really like your savage Redfield set ups. Look to be plenty of fun at the right price.

Rex, to fund this I will sell a gun and use that to fund it. Don't plan on spending more than $200 on optics with the choices out there in that range now. They will also shoot much better than I can at this point. Outgrow it and I'll slap it on the 06 and no money lost. Plan to add a press to the deal if I can get what I'd like from the other gun. Maybe $ 900 range.
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby jarbo03 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:05 am

You won't go wrong with the Savage, very happy with mine. The Ruger combo with the Redfield would be a good choice also.
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby triplecurl » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:45 am

jarbo03 wrote:You won't go wrong with the Savage, very happy with mine. The Ruger combo with the Redfield would be a good choice also.


X2 on the Savage.
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby R. Chapman » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:18 am

Flightstopper wrote:
Tomkat wrote:
Flightstopper wrote:Can we stay on topic with this one please? Had a good thread going and I have no intention of getting either of those calibers.
FS what do you think of the suggestions I have made? Any questions or concerns?


I do really like your savage Redfield set ups. Look to be plenty of fun at the right price.

Rex, to fund this I will sell a gun and use that to fund it. Don't plan on spending more than $200 on optics with the choices out there in that range now. They will also shoot much better than I can at this point. Outgrow it and I'll slap it on the 06 and no money lost. Plan to add a press to the deal if I can get what I'd like from the other gun. Maybe $ 900 range.

So about $600 for a rifle? What kind of gun are you trying to sell? It might be worth getting a Shillen barrel for that action, depending on the action. But like many have suggested, take a look at Savage. I personally don't like savage but they are accurate, very accurate. Or get a Remington Model 7 synthetic and replace the POS xmark trigger with a Timney or Bassixs. Either one is fine for a hunting rifle.
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby sws002 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:33 am

R. Chapman wrote:
Flightstopper wrote:
Tomkat wrote:
Flightstopper wrote:Can we stay on topic with this one please? Had a good thread going and I have no intention of getting either of those calibers.
FS what do you think of the suggestions I have made? Any questions or concerns?


I do really like your savage Redfield set ups. Look to be plenty of fun at the right price.

Rex, to fund this I will sell a gun and use that to fund it. Don't plan on spending more than $200 on optics with the choices out there in that range now. They will also shoot much better than I can at this point. Outgrow it and I'll slap it on the 06 and no money lost. Plan to add a press to the deal if I can get what I'd like from the other gun. Maybe $ 900 range.

So about $600 for a rifle? What kind of gun are you trying to sell? It might be worth getting a Shillen barrel for that action, depending on the action. But like many have suggested, take a look at Savage. I personally don't like savage but they are accurate, very accurate. Or get a Remington Model 7 synthetic and replace the POS xmark trigger with a Timney or Bassixs. Either one is fine for a hunting rifle.


Gonna be a while before you can buy a Remington anywhere. Every gun they've made since 2006 is getting recalled.
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby Flightstopper » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:54 am

R. Chapman wrote:
Flightstopper wrote:
Tomkat wrote:
Flightstopper wrote:Can we stay on topic with this one please? Had a good thread going and I have no intention of getting either of those calibers.
FS what do you think of the suggestions I have made? Any questions or concerns?


I do really like your savage Redfield set ups. Look to be plenty of fun at the right price.

Rex, to fund this I will sell a gun and use that to fund it. Don't plan on spending more than $200 on optics with the choices out there in that range now. They will also shoot much better than I can at this point. Outgrow it and I'll slap it on the 06 and no money lost. Plan to add a press to the deal if I can get what I'd like from the other gun. Maybe $ 900 range.

So about $600 for a rifle? What kind of gun are you trying to sell? It might be worth getting a Shillen barrel for that action, depending on the action. But like many have suggested, take a look at Savage. I personally don't like savage but they are accurate, very accurate. Or get a Remington Model 7 synthetic and replace the POS xmark trigger with a Timney or Bassixs. Either one is fine for a hunting rifle.


Tell me more here, I feel like I will quickly get in over my head and just purchase off the shelf but still curious. How much needs to be done by a smith to go this route. How much can be done at home and what kind of investment should be made for each component? I don't want top shelf but I would get something that I would last for a good while.
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby R. Chapman » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:14 am

sws002 wrote:
R. Chapman wrote:
Flightstopper wrote:
Tomkat wrote:
Flightstopper wrote:Can we stay on topic with this one please? Had a good thread going and I have no intention of getting either of those calibers.
FS what do you think of the suggestions I have made? Any questions or concerns?


I do really like your savage Redfield set ups. Look to be plenty of fun at the right price.

Rex, to fund this I will sell a gun and use that to fund it. Don't plan on spending more than $200 on optics with the choices out there in that range now. They will also shoot much better than I can at this point. Outgrow it and I'll slap it on the 06 and no money lost. Plan to add a press to the deal if I can get what I'd like from the other gun. Maybe $ 900 range.

So about $600 for a rifle? What kind of gun are you trying to sell? It might be worth getting a Shillen barrel for that action, depending on the action. But like many have suggested, take a look at Savage. I personally don't like savage but they are accurate, very accurate. Or get a Remington Model 7 synthetic and replace the POS xmark trigger with a Timney or Bassixs. Either one is fine for a hunting rifle.


Gonna be a while before you can buy a Remington anywhere. Every gun they've made since 2006 is getting recalled.

Yeah and you know why, because of that POS X-Mark Pro Trigger. It's a bad design. The walker trigger is far superior in lock time and minimal over-travel to the X-Mark.
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New rifle choices

Postby Tomkat » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:22 am

sws002 wrote:
R. Chapman wrote:
Flightstopper wrote:
Tomkat wrote:
Flightstopper wrote:Can we stay on topic with this one please? Had a good thread going and I have no intention of getting either of those calibers.
FS what do you think of the suggestions I have made? Any questions or concerns?


I do really like your savage Redfield set ups. Look to be plenty of fun at the right price.

Rex, to fund this I will sell a gun and use that to fund it. Don't plan on spending more than $200 on optics with the choices out there in that range now. They will also shoot much better than I can at this point. Outgrow it and I'll slap it on the 06 and no money lost. Plan to add a press to the deal if I can get what I'd like from the other gun. Maybe $ 900 range.

So about $600 for a rifle? What kind of gun are you trying to sell? It might be worth getting a Shillen barrel for that action, depending on the action. But like many have suggested, take a look at Savage. I personally don't like savage but they are accurate, very accurate. Or get a Remington Model 7 synthetic and replace the POS xmark trigger with a Timney or Bassixs. Either one is fine for a hunting rifle.


Gonna be a while before you can buy a Remington anywhere. Every gun they've made since 2006 is getting recalled.


Recalls are used for inferior and defective products. I don't own a single Remington rifle.

FS you should Google Remington Liability law suites related to their trigger systems.
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby Tomkat » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:24 am

Flightstopper wrote:
R. Chapman wrote:
Flightstopper wrote:
Tomkat wrote:
Flightstopper wrote:Can we stay on topic with this one please? Had a good thread going and I have no intention of getting either of those calibers.
FS what do you think of the suggestions I have made? Any questions or concerns?


I do really like your savage Redfield set ups. Look to be plenty of fun at the right price.

Rex, to fund this I will sell a gun and use that to fund it. Don't plan on spending more than $200 on optics with the choices out there in that range now. They will also shoot much better than I can at this point. Outgrow it and I'll slap it on the 06 and no money lost. Plan to add a press to the deal if I can get what I'd like from the other gun. Maybe $ 900 range.

So about $600 for a rifle? What kind of gun are you trying to sell? It might be worth getting a Shillen barrel for that action, depending on the action. But like many have suggested, take a look at Savage. I personally don't like savage but they are accurate, very accurate. Or get a Remington Model 7 synthetic and replace the POS xmark trigger with a Timney or Bassixs. Either one is fine for a hunting rifle.


Tell me more here, I feel like I will quickly get in over my head and just purchase off the shelf but still curious. How much needs to be done by a smith to go this route. How much can be done at home and what kind of investment should be made for each component? I don't want top shelf but I would get something that I would last for a good while.


The Savage Accu Trigger can be adjusted easily in a matter of minutes. They come from the factory set at 3 lbs. I have found them to work very well in the field.
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Re: New rifle choices

Postby R. Chapman » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:31 am

For the barrel from a maker like Shillen? What would be needed is an action (Preferably a 700/1500 action) or a a Mauser style like a Ruger, Winchester etc. The gunsmithing that would be required (assuming you don't have an action wrench and a barrel vice) is for the smith to take the old barrel off, and install the new barrel. What he might want and have to do is true up the action first though, just so the barrel sits flat to the receiver/action. He'll then install the barrel to the action and you essentially have a new gun without getting rid of a gun. You could also put a decent trigger in it. Oh forgot to mention that the gunsmith may have to cut the chamber if you buy a barrel blank. Nothing wrong with that but it does cost some more money. Then you can do a lot of other improvements to the rifle yourself.

Now if you go the factory route, there are many things you can do to improve rifle accuracy. Glass bedding the action and/or recoil lug, pillar bedding the action screw holes, free floating the barrel channel, Cutting a better crown (this can be a gunsmiths job or your job depending on the crown) and putting in a better trigger.

Here's a few links to some barrel makers. Definitely consider the first idea:

http://www.bartleinbarrels.com/

http://www.rifle-barrels.net/

http://www.hartbarrels.com/

http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/

http://www.riflebarrels.com/

http://pac-nor.com/

http://www.shilen.com/

http://ershawbarrels.com/

http://www.mcgowenbarrel.com/about.htm

All of these barrel makers are quality. And a barrel runs anywhere from $300-$600. They're all good.
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