Boss Bismuth loads

[Dr. Oc]

I recently purchased 2 cases of Boss bismuth duck loads in #4 & #5's. I've hunted ducks for over 45 years and never had the disappointment that I've had with their reliabilty. They knock the heck out a duck, I'll give them that, but I have shot less than 2 boxes of shells so far and have experienced 4 misfires in 2 hunts! I have only had 2 misfires previously in thousands of shells over the years. The 4 misfires happened in both my Browning Maxus and my Remington 11-87. I reached out to the company and they blamed my guns or lack of cleaning to cause short strikes and therefore failure to fire. I assured them that was not the case as the guns are well cared for and have fired every other shell I've shot through them this season without problems. I even sent a picture of a well indented primer. They claim that they have not had any other reports of this problem. That may be true if no one has reported it to them, but I know another hunting partner of mine has had 2 misfires so I know it is not an isolated incident. Has anyone else on this site had problems with these shells? I'd like to know if somehow I got the only bad batch of primers/shells?

[Ricky Spanish]

I recently purchased 2 cases of Boss bismuth duck loads in #4 & #5's. I've hunted ducks for over 45 years and never had the disappointment that I've had with their reliabilty. They knock the heck out a duck, I'll give them that, but I have shot less than 2 boxes of shells so far and have experienced 4 misfires in 2 hunts! I have only had 2 misfires previously in thousands of shells over the years. The 4 misfires happened in both my Browning Maxus and my Remington 11-87. I reached out to the company and they blamed my guns or lack of cleaning to cause short strikes and therefore failure to fire. I assured them that was not the case as the guns are well cared for and have fired every other shell I've shot through them this season without problems. I even sent a picture of a well indented primer. They claim that they have not had any other reports of this problem. That may be true if no one has reported it to them, but I know another hunting partner of mine has had 2 misfires so I know it is not an isolated incident. Has anyone else on this site had problems with these shells? I'd like to know if somehow I got the only bad batch of primers/shells?

No.
I think you're going to find that a majority of duck hunters use the cheap expert shells from Winchester.
I've tried premium ammo and for me it's like pissing up a rope. Premium ammo isn't the answer.
Shooting cases of experts at clays is. Spend the money on practicing.
In general ammo and firearms companies treat a complaint as a potential lawsuit and turn it over to liars err lawyers.
Did they time stamp replies to you and add that if you don't reply within 24 hours that you've agreed to drop any litigation.
Remington did it to me when I asked about how my super magnum was smashing my middle finger.
It has to really suck when a $5 shotshell don't work.
Toss it into the water to be safe

[Anotherone]

You’re not the first person I heard complaining about Boss ammo misfiring. I’ll keep shooting whatever steel I find on the shelf, they all miss birds as good as the bismuth and HTL loads.

[Rick]

Bought a bulk pack of Boss 16ga 5s a year or two ago to try through an old Model 12 and haven't burned them all yet, but so far, so good in terms of misfires. But I can't say I've seen any appreciable difference between bismuth and (only somewhat cheaper in 16ga) steel, except bismuth might fracture...

[Darren]

Have gone through 3 cases of BOSS in the last 3 seasons now with good results. Have not experienced a misfire BUT did have a poor crimp on two shells in my first case couple years back, none since.

I like the #3/5 mix shells at 2 3/4", can do just about anything I'd want with those. As Rick noted, I have seen a few instances of fracture within the bird a season or two back as well, didn't notice any this year. Listened to Ramsey Russel's recent podcast with the BOSS crew, really impressed by their approach to ballistics, getting more out of smaller bore loads such that it's started a trend of people going down to 20 and even 28 gauges with their loads in hand.

[5 stand]

Have gone through 3 cases of BOSS in the last 3 seasons now with good results. Have not experienced a misfire BUT did have a poor crimp on two shells in my first case couple years back, none since.

I like the #3/5 mix shells at 2 3/4", can do just about anything I'd want with those. As Rick noted, I have seen a few instances of fracture within the bird a season or two back as well, didn't notice any this year. Listened to Ramsey Russel's recent podcast with the BOSS crew, really impressed by their approach to ballistics, getting more out of smaller bore loads such that it's started a trend of people going down to 20 and even 28 gauges with their loads in hand.

A few years ago (your blind was chipping a lot of birds and you were aggravated) we had a discussion about bismuth and have often wondered if you ever tried it... You may have mentioned that you were using it and I didn't catch it... Glad you tried it and have some confidence in it (confidence kills birds)...

[Ricky Spanish]

I pounded ducks with 410 bismuth 6s.
Not boss.
We done got off the rails.
The shells I used were hand loaded with roll crimps and were only 2.5 inches long.
I suspect that heavy loads at high speed ( hi power) cracks pellets. And maybe some pellets break on impact it's hard to say which.
I had no trouble at all with my 410 gauge hunts.
Was kind of neat

[plainsman]

It seems boss has had primer issues as of late seeing more misfire posts all the time Not good for a "premium" priced round

[Darren]

Have gone through 3 cases of BOSS in the last 3 seasons now with good results. Have not experienced a misfire BUT did have a poor crimp on two shells in my first case couple years back, none since.

I like the #3/5 mix shells at 2 3/4", can do just about anything I'd want with those. As Rick noted, I have seen a few instances of fracture within the bird a season or two back as well, didn't notice any this year. Listened to Ramsey Russel's recent podcast with the BOSS crew, really impressed by their approach to ballistics, getting more out of smaller bore loads such that it's started a trend of people going down to 20 and even 28 gauges with their loads in hand.

A few years ago (your blind was chipping a lot of birds and you were aggravated) we had a discussion about bismuth and have often wondered if you ever tried it... You may have mentioned that you were using it and I didn't catch it... Glad you tried it and have some confidence in it (confidence kills birds)...

Indeed the frustration was with looong off crip grays in the marsh that were hit....fly 300 yards, then fall dead as a hammer out of the sky. Crooked barrels still cost me some blind time in out in marsh working the dog, but I would say it has certainly been considerably reduced.

Even if one is not interested in paying the premium price (though, everything else's price point is catching up), the podcast episode is a good listen if you're interested in shotgun ballistics, patterning, etc.

[5 stand]

Have gone through 3 cases of BOSS in the last 3 seasons now with good results. Have not experienced a misfire BUT did have a poor crimp on two shells in my first case couple years back, none since.

I like the #3/5 mix shells at 2 3/4", can do just about anything I'd want with those. As Rick noted, I have seen a few instances of fracture within the bird a season or two back as well, didn't notice any this year. Listened to Ramsey Russel's recent podcast with the BOSS crew, really impressed by their approach to ballistics, getting more out of smaller bore loads such that it's started a trend of people going down to 20 and even 28 gauges with their loads in hand.

A few years ago (your blind was chipping a lot of birds and you were aggravated) we had a discussion about bismuth and have often wondered if you ever tried it... You may have mentioned that you were using it and I didn't catch it... Glad you tried it and have some confidence in it (confidence kills birds)...

Indeed the frustration was with looong off crip grays in the marsh that were hit....fly 300 yards, then fall dead as a hammer out of the sky. Crooked barrels still cost me some blind time in out in marsh working the dog, but I would say it has certainly been considerably reduced.

Even if one is not interested in paying the premium price (though, everything else's price point is catching up), the podcast episode is a good listen if you're interested in shotgun ballistics, patterning, etc.

"considerably reduced" .
Awesome...
Confidence kills birds...

[Ricky Spanish]

Look at the stats on most posts.
Assateague.
He won't rejoin but he'd tell about how he kills everything (including Emus) with a 410 he loads with...
T
S
S
#
9
He's still around but moved to Arizona.

[plainsman]

Look at the stats on most posts.
Assateague.
He won't rejoin but he'd tell about how he kills everything (including Emus) with a 410 he loads with...
T
S
S
#
9
He's still around but moved to Arizona.

more useless babble

[plainsman]

for my money. I'll stay with Win.

[Ducaholic]

Have gone through 3 cases of BOSS in the last 3 seasons now with good results. Have not experienced a misfire BUT did have a poor crimp on two shells in my first case couple years back, none since.

I like the #3/5 mix shells at 2 3/4", can do just about anything I'd want with those. As Rick noted, I have seen a few instances of fracture within the bird a season or two back as well, didn't notice any this year. Listened to Ramsey Russel's recent podcast with the BOSS crew, really impressed by their approach to ballistics, getting more out of smaller bore loads such that it's started a trend of people going down to 20 and even 28 gauges with their loads in hand.

A few years ago (your blind was chipping a lot of birds and you were aggravated) we had a discussion about bismuth and have often wondered if you ever tried it... You may have mentioned that you were using it and I didn't catch it... Glad you tried it and have some confidence in it (confidence kills birds)...

Indeed the frustration was with looong off crip grays in the marsh that were hit....fly 300 yards, then fall dead as a hammer out of the sky. Crooked barrels still cost me some blind time in out in marsh working the dog, but I would say it has certainly been considerably reduced.

Even if one is not interested in paying the premium price (though, everything else's price point is catching up), the podcast episode is a good listen if you're interested in shotgun ballistics, patterning, etc.

I have said this many time at 20 yards everything works. At 35 and beyond very few work really well in the hands of an amateur shot gunner. With all that said I shoot ok and will pay a reasonable price for a better than average shell because I know it gives me a better than average chance at 35 yards when compared to the the guy shooting the cheap stuff. Cut em open and compare. There is no denying what you will see.

Glad to see you came around

[Rick]

I have said this many time at 20 yards everything works. At 35 and beyond very few work really well in the hands of an amateur shot gunner. With all that said I shoot ok and will pay a reasonable price for a better than average shell because I know it gives me a better than average chance at 35 yards when compared to the the guy shooting the cheap stuff.

Put me in mind of the Lacassine National Wildlife Refuge steel vs lead study's find that it's participants actually did a little better beyond 35 (yards or meters?) with early steel loads than ballistically superior lead.

[5 stand]

I have said this many time at 20 yards everything works. At 35 and beyond very few work really well in the hands of an amateur shot gunner. With all that said I shoot ok and will pay a reasonable price for a better than average shell because I know it gives me a better than average chance at 35 yards when compared to the the guy shooting the cheap stuff.

Put me in mind of the Lacassine National Wildlife Refuge steel vs lead study's find that it's participants actually did a little better beyond 35 (yards or meters?) with early steel loads than ballistically superior lead.

A little better... Is probably true, beyond 35 for the average guy is pretty much spray and pray...
I see it on the sporting Clay courses all the time... Especially when you get a score sheet involved...

[Ducaholic]

I have said this many time at 20 yards everything works. At 35 and beyond very few work really well in the hands of an amateur shot gunner. With all that said I shoot ok and will pay a reasonable price for a better than average shell because I know it gives me a better than average chance at 35 yards when compared to the the guy shooting the cheap stuff.

Put me in mind of the Lacassine National Wildlife Refuge steel vs lead study's find that it's participants actually did a little better beyond 35 (yards or meters?) with early steel loads than ballistically superior lead.

Hmmm interesting. You wouldn't have found many anywhere that would have believed or traded early steel for lead.

[Ricky Spanish]

I have said this many time at 20 yards everything works. At 35 and beyond very few work really well in the hands of an amateur shot gunner. With all that said I shoot ok and will pay a reasonable price for a better than average shell because I know it gives me a better than average chance at 35 yards when compared to the the guy shooting the cheap stuff.

Put me in mind of the Lacassine National Wildlife Refuge steel vs lead study's find that it's participants actually did a little better beyond 35 (yards or meters?) with early steel loads than ballistically superior lead.

A little better... Is probably true, beyond 35 for the average guy is pretty much spray and pray...
I see it on the sporting Clay courses all the time... Especially when you get a score sheet involved...

Ever miss twice on same bird then drop bird on third?
By the time you miss twice it's way out there.

Used to hunt with a big Irish guy that used BB on everything. He'd drop a mallard from way the hell up.
It is possible but not a good percentage deal unless you're on target and lead it by 24 feet.
They're a lot easier to kill up close.
And we're back to this.

16753682737305753724758509871228.jpg

[Rick]

A little better... Is probably true, beyond 35 for the average guy is pretty much spray and pray...

The difference wasn't deemed great enough to be "statistically significant" (or some such) by the study's authors, but that lead didn't leave steel in its wake at longer ranges would seem to say something about the average participant's ability to put ballistic superiority to good use.

[5 stand]

I have said this many time at 20 yards everything works. At 35 and beyond very few work really well in the hands of an amateur shot gunner. With all that said I shoot ok and will pay a reasonable price for a better than average shell because I know it gives me a better than average chance at 35 yards when compared to the the guy shooting the cheap stuff.

Put me in mind of the Lacassine National Wildlife Refuge steel vs lead study's find that it's participants actually did a little better beyond 35 (yards or meters?) with early steel loads than ballistically superior lead.

A little better... Is probably true, beyond 35 for the average guy is pretty much spray and pray...
I see it on the sporting Clay courses all the time... Especially when you get a score sheet involved...

Ever miss twice on same bird then drop bird on third?
By the time you miss twice it's way out there.

16753682737305753724758509871228.jpg

Yes sir I miss twice on the same bird several times a year and kill it with a third... I have a tendency to put sporting Clay leads on them, I always have to shoot at live birds (at least that's what I think in my mind)...
Most of the time after you shoot twice they're going away birds, you can shoot real close to at them, not 24 ft... That's why spray and pray works, sometimes...
24 ft reminded me of a buddy of mine that I used to shoot sporting Clays with... He told me one time it takes a lot of lead give it a bus, I asked him if it was a Volkswagen bus or a school bus...

[Ricky Spanish]

I have said this many time at 20 yards everything works. At 35 and beyond very few work really well in the hands of an amateur shot gunner. With all that said I shoot ok and will pay a reasonable price for a better than average shell because I know it gives me a better than average chance at 35 yards when compared to the the guy shooting the cheap stuff.

Put me in mind of the Lacassine National Wildlife Refuge steel vs lead study's find that it's participants actually did a little better beyond 35 (yards or meters?) with early steel loads than ballistically superior lead.

A little better... Is probably true, beyond 35 for the average guy is pretty much spray and pray...
I see it on the sporting Clay courses all the time... Especially when you get a score sheet involved...

Ever miss twice on same bird then drop bird on third?
By the time you miss twice it's way out there.

16753682737305753724758509871228.jpg

Yes sir I miss twice on the same bird several times a year and kill it with a third... I have a tendency to put sporting Clay leads on them, I always have to shoot at live birds (at least that's what I think in my mind)...
Most of the time after you shoot twice they're going away birds, you can shoot real close to at them, not 24 ft... That's why I spray and pray works, sometimes...
24 ft reminded me of a buddy of mine that I used to shoot sporting Clays with... He told me one time it takes a lot of lead give it a bus, I asked him if it was a Volkswagen bus or a school bus...

Third shot is usually in the ass and either straight up or a long low flyer. 9 times out of 10 it's straight up.
Lead? Cover it up and pull trigger.
We do all this without thinking.
Pow

[Rick]

You wouldn't have found many anywhere that would have believed or traded early steel for lead.

Yet many were anxious to parrot the fact that steel performed better under 35 without having read, much less questioned, how the nature of that blind study may have influenced that outcome through the participants' predilection for tight chokes. Something those in the know are apt eschew for steel at ranges inside 35.

[Ricky Spanish]

You wouldn't have found many anywhere that would have believed or traded early steel for lead.

Yet many were anxious to parrot the fact that steel performed better under 35 without having read, much less questioned, how the nature of that blind study may have influenced that outcome through the participants' predilection for tight chokes. Something those in the know are apt eschew for steel at ranges inside 35.

Perhaps I'm the one who has used steel longest.
I started out on federal lands that required non-toxic shot years before the nationwide ban. Back then I shot improved cylinder because it patterned better on the old "slag" shot. It was that bad.
We are lucky in that the steel we shoot today is fairly uniform size, shaped, and very symmetrical spheres.
In 15 years it's improved dramatically.
I cut open shells to see what I'm shooting.
Today's Winchester Experts are actually quite good.

[Ricky Spanish]

Didn't shoot a lot this year.
Maybe 3 boxes. Sad.
Anyhow these perform perfectly for me.
Remington Blue and Wicked Wing from Browning.
Both have nice tight crimps and pretty much perfect shot.
I cut one of each to see.
If it's all you can get don't hesitate to try these shells.
They're Aunt Betty approved.

1675372522877869238594918392243.jpg

[plainsman]

I use Win 1550's out to 45 yd.s, give or take a few, never felt the need for "premium" loads, but whatever floats your boat.