And It Continues...

[Eric Haynes]

I'm not going to bother explaining how the "common core" math works because it's clear that you don't want it to. It's also been taught this way for at least 20 years, so it's not just "common core" they adopted it. I remember you bitching about teachers not being good enough over on the other forum and not being held accountable, if my memory serves me right. Well, guess what? Now they are. They are rated on how well the student does with the new curriculum that they didn't even write. I don't know a single teacher that is happy about "common core" requirements and how far advanced it is compared to what was being taught for those age levels. On top of that, having their jobs depend on the kids "getting it." Isn't that what you wanted? Teacher accountability?

The whole "common core" thing to me is is pretty stupid as all kids arent the same, but seriously....the math portion is easy. Been taught the same way in advanced schools forever, so it's nothing new, yet thats what parents seem to struggle with.

I went to a good private school in elementary and this is not how we learned.

I said adavnced, not private. The only private school here is now closing, because it sucked. Nothing advanced about it...just private.

Where you live must be an enigma, for the rest of the country private school students out perform public school students by leaps and bounds.

It may just be a NY thing. Private schools here seem to not have much regulation, so it seems. The one here was an elementary Catholic school, K-6. They were starting teachers out at $20k a year, which obviously any good teacher would never accept. It was all of the teachers that didn't get tenured and had no where else to go that were getting hired there. What would you expect the outcome to be? I know typically private and advanced go together when it comes to schools, but its not always the case, especially here.

[aunt betty]

The only benefit I got from all the math shit was I learned to multiply big numbers in my head by using the distributive property. For instance
25X23
20x25+3x25
575

For years that was my "thing". I could multiply faster than you could with a calculator. Used to race ppl all the time in grade school.

[Eric Haynes]

http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/arti ... /703279663

[aunt betty]

AT, when society collapses I'd be glad to tutor your kids in math , physics, science...

[Eric Haynes]

The only benefit I got from all the math shit was I learned to multiply big numbers in my head by using the distributive property. For instance
25X23
20x25+3x25
575

For years that was my "thing". I could multiply faster than you could with a calculator. Used to race ppl all the time in grade school.

That works for you, so there must be something to it, right? You can't be the only one that it works for, so shouldn't we be giving that some thought? Not all kids get the basic way on how to do things, and those kids are getting left in the dark. That is the reasoning for doing math the "crazy" way. It does work for more people than you would ever imagine.

[Woody]

The only benefit I got from all the math shit was I learned to multiply big numbers in my head by using the distributive property. For instance
25X23
20x25+3x25
575

For years that was my "thing". I could multiply faster than you could with a calculator. Used to race ppl all the time in grade school.

That works for you, so there must be something to it, right? You can't be the only one that it works for, so shouldn't we be giving that some thought? Not all kids get the basic way on how to do things, and those kids are getting left in the dark. That is the reasoning for doing math the "crazy" way. It does work for more people than you would ever imagine.

Great, they can get basic math in a way that they can't do quickly enough to be useful and you still havent answered my question regarding how we teach them the difficult stuff.

sinh(x) = ( ex - e-x )/2

[Eric Haynes]

The only benefit I got from all the math shit was I learned to multiply big numbers in my head by using the distributive property. For instance
25X23
20x25+3x25
575

For years that was my "thing". I could multiply faster than you could with a calculator. Used to race ppl all the time in grade school.

That works for you, so there must be something to it, right? You can't be the only one that it works for, so shouldn't we be giving that some thought? Not all kids get the basic way on how to do things, and those kids are getting left in the dark. That is the reasoning for doing math the "crazy" way. It does work for more people than you would ever imagine.

Great, they can get basic math in a way that they can't do quickly enough to be useful and you still havent answered my question regarding how we teach them the difficult stuff.

sinh(x) = ( ex - e-x )/2

Common core is exactly what it says. CORE. That problem is not a core problem.

"Common core" is only until 8th grade.

[Eric Haynes]

The only benefit I got from all the math shit was I learned to multiply big numbers in my head by using the distributive property. For instance
25X23
20x25+3x25
575

For years that was my "thing". I could multiply faster than you could with a calculator. Used to race ppl all the time in grade school.

That works for you, so there must be something to it, right? You can't be the only one that it works for, so shouldn't we be giving that some thought? Not all kids get the basic way on how to do things, and those kids are getting left in the dark. That is the reasoning for doing math the "crazy" way. It does work for more people than you would ever imagine.

Great, they can get basic math in a way that they can't do quickly enough to be useful and you still havent answered my question regarding how we teach them the difficult stuff.

sinh(x) = ( ex - e-x )/2

Just because you can't do it quickly enough to be useful, doesnt mean others can't. Did you not read Bettys post? He raced people with calculators and he won using a method that is within "common core"

[Woody]

The only benefit I got from all the math shit was I learned to multiply big numbers in my head by using the distributive property. For instance
25X23
20x25+3x25
575

For years that was my "thing". I could multiply faster than you could with a calculator. Used to race ppl all the time in grade school.

That works for you, so there must be something to it, right? You can't be the only one that it works for, so shouldn't we be giving that some thought? Not all kids get the basic way on how to do things, and those kids are getting left in the dark. That is the reasoning for doing math the "crazy" way. It does work for more people than you would ever imagine.

Great, they can get basic math in a way that they can't do quickly enough to be useful and you still havent answered my question regarding how we teach them the difficult stuff.

sinh(x) = ( ex - e-x )/2

Common core is exactly what it says. CORE. That problem is not a core problem.

"Common core" is only until 8th grade.

I learned that in the 7th grade

[Woody]

but that is not my grander point, Eric.

How do you apply the lessons they learned in their core classes to that problem?

[aunt betty]

The only benefit I got from all the math shit was I learned to multiply big numbers in my head by using the distributive property. For instance
25X23
20x25+3x25
575

For years that was my "thing". I could multiply faster than you could with a calculator. Used to race ppl all the time in grade school.

That works for you, so there must be something to it, right? You can't be the only one that it works for, so shouldn't we be giving that some thought? Not all kids get the basic way on how to do things, and those kids are getting left in the dark. That is the reasoning for doing math the "crazy" way. It does work for more people than you would ever imagine.

True but in doing it backwards. ...you really fuck up future lessons.

The study of math is like a coil...you start in the center and work through the coils one at a time.
Sure..you can skip a lap but within one lap you'll be fucked and going back to the part you missed.
Its just the way it is.

[waterfowlman]

Forget the frigging math. Common Core is rewriting American history taught to our kids to reflect the far left's agenda among other things.

[Eric Haynes]

but that is not my grander point, Eric.

How do you apply the lessons they learned in their core classes to that problem?

Its being taught to understand the basics. Once they understand the ins and outs, they will better understand the advanced stuff.

Using your same question, how does 2-1 apply to your problem?

[Eric Haynes]

Forget the frigging math. Common Core is rewriting American history taught to our kids to reflect the far left's agenda among other things.

As stated before, I don't agree with "common core" , just pointing out that the math is really nothing new.

What really bothers me the most is basically taking out Social Studies.

[Woody]

but that is not my grander point, Eric.

How do you apply the lessons they learned in their core classes to that problem?

Its being taught to understand the basics. Once they understand the ins and outs, they will better understand the advanced stuff.

Using your same question, how does 2-1 apply to your problem?

It doesn't directly. I meant more a long the line that in the end there is only one true answer to simple math problems and there is only one true way to get to those answers. The other ways are just expanded and over complicated ways to get to the same thing. So, what are these kids going to do when they get to the hard stuff, when there is no way to liberalize it?

And what you are arguing is that one way works for one student and one way works for another. So, when they required them all to learn the "old" way some kids were left in the dark. Now they are requiring all kids to learn all the "different" ways. So, ALL kids will now be left in the dark... Great!

[assateague]

I'm not going to bother explaining how the "common core" math works because it's clear that you don't want it to. It's also been taught this way for at least 20 years, so it's not just "common core" they adopted it. I remember you bitching about teachers not being good enough over on the other forum and not being held accountable, if my memory serves me right. Well, guess what? Now they are. They are rated on how well the student does with the new curriculum that they didn't even write. I don't know a single teacher that is happy about "common core" requirements and how far advanced it is compared to what was being taught for those age levels. On top of that, having their jobs depend on the kids "getting it." Isn't that what you wanted? Teacher accountability?

The whole "common core" thing to me is is pretty stupid as all kids arent the same, but seriously....the math portion is easy. Been taught the same way in advanced schools forever, so it's nothing new, yet thats what parents seem to struggle with.

It's not that I "don't want it to", it's that nobody knows if it does or not. It was never tested, ANYWHERE, before being rolled out pretty much nationwide.

As for the "that's how it's been taught for years", that's nonsense. We had the oldest, my stepdaughter, in a private school for 5 years, and none of it was taught like it is being taught. Not math, not reading, not spelling. She had books, with nothing but pages of problems and words, that she had to solve/read for time. She loved it. When she moved to public school, it took two full years for the rest to catch up. Two years where she was bored out of her head and did poorly because of it. We had some of those books that we used for our youngest, but guess what? The school has her going backwards, because she can't simply solve math problems, she has to draw fucking pictures or solve it three different ways which she would not do, doesn't need to do, not will ever use. But all these "methods" certainly do a wonderful job of mucking things up. "Oh, you understand that 13-4=9? Well now we're going to fuck it up by making you solve it using a number line and sticks of 5". It's ducking retarded.

You don't teach "methods", you teach facts. I guarantee how you do math, I do math, and Betty does math are all different. If you try to teach kids all these "methods", it's confusing as hell. Teach them the proper answer and let them find what works for them instead of having a bunch of jibberish thrown at them.

If you really think "that's how it's akways been taught", explain when students were taught to solve subtraction problems by randomly plugging in "guessed" numbers.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1400677050.865516.jpg

[aunt betty]

Lets talk about the effectiveness of new education methods.

They suck. I forget the numbers but in high school seniors around 60% are functionally illiterate. I know we're arguing about math and I'm pretty sure the numbers were about the same for math. Our public schools are working perfectly...if you're a general or a corporate mogul.

[Eric Haynes]

I'm not going to bother explaining how the "common core" math works because it's clear that you don't want it to. It's also been taught this way for at least 20 years, so it's not just "common core" they adopted it. I remember you bitching about teachers not being good enough over on the other forum and not being held accountable, if my memory serves me right. Well, guess what? Now they are. They are rated on how well the student does with the new curriculum that they didn't even write. I don't know a single teacher that is happy about "common core" requirements and how far advanced it is compared to what was being taught for those age levels. On top of that, having their jobs depend on the kids "getting it." Isn't that what you wanted? Teacher accountability?

The whole "common core" thing to me is is pretty stupid as all kids arent the same, but seriously....the math portion is easy. Been taught the same way in advanced schools forever, so it's nothing new, yet thats what parents seem to struggle with.

It's not that I "don't want it to", it's that nobody knows if it does or not. It was never tested, ANYWHERE, before being rolled out pretty much nationwide.

As for the "that's how it's been taught for years", that's nonsense. We had the oldest, my stepdaughter, in a private school for 5 years, and none of it was taught like it is being taught. Not math, not reading, not spelling. She had books, with nothing but pages of problems and words, that she had to solve/read for time. She loved it. When she moved to public school, it took two full years for the rest to catch up. Two years where she was bored out of her head and did poorly because of it. We had some of those books that we used for our youngest, but guess what? The school has her going backwards, because she can't simply solve math problems, she has to draw fucking pictures or solve it three different ways which she would not do, doesn't need to do, not will ever use. But all these "methods" certainly do a wonderful job of mucking things up. "Oh, you understand that 13-4=9? Well now we're going to fuck it up by making you solve it using a number line and sticks of 5". It's ducking retarded.

You don't teach "methods", you teach facts. I guarantee how you do math, I do math, and Betty does math are all different. If you try to teach kids all these "methods", it's confusing as hell. Teach them the proper answer and let them find what works for them instead of having a bunch of jibberish thrown at them.

If you really think "that's how it's akways been taught", explain when students were taught to solve subtraction problems by randomly plugging in "guessed" numbers.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1400677050.865516.jpg

Maybe its just because I'm from NY. I've seen the math stuff all through elementary school.

[aunt betty]

In differential equations there is a method for solving called "the method of guessing".
I always thought that was a trip...
Forget but it's a 200 or 300 level college math class. Method Of Guessing...rofl.

[Eric Haynes]

In differential equations there is a method for solving called "the method of guessing".
I always thought that was a trip...
Forget but it's a 200 or 300 level college math class. Method Of Guessing...rofl.

Blasphemy! This is all new and never tested material.

[Glimmerjim]

From what I can see the purpose of the "Common Core" math ideas have never even been brought up. It is an attempt to improve education by exercising a kid's imagination and not be solely dependent on rote memorization. It is teaching the kid to "think" instead of regurgitating facts that he doesn't understand at the core. What is the basis for success in any country? It's not doing that which has been done for millenia, it is innovation. If you want an army of drones, the way to accomplish that is to keep on keeping on. If you want a society of "thinking" members, teach them to learn to use their imagination and individuality to solve problems. Kids pick things up remarkably quickly and easily. While the concepts may be confusing to us, they will have no issues once that is the norm. How many 12 year olds teach their parents how to use the latest technological gizmo? It just seems to come naturally to them.

[assateague]

There is a time and a place for this. Basic elementary Ed is not it. When building a house, dress it up however you want. Use the trendiest building materials. But don't do it on the foundation.

[Eric Haynes]

There is a time and a place for this. Basic elementary Ed is not it. When building a house, dress it up however you want. Use the trendiest building materials. But don't do it on the foundation.

Foundations used to be made from stone. When the earliest concrete was introduced, all of the stone workers claimed that concrete would deteriorate too quickly and not be as structural as stone....

[aunt betty]

From what I can see the purpose of the "Common Core" math ideas have never even been brought up. It is an attempt to improve education by exercising a kid's imagination and not be solely dependent on rote memorization. It is teaching the kid to "think" instead of regurgitating facts that he doesn't understand at the core. What is the basis for success in any country? It's not doing that which has been done for millenia, it is innovation. If you want an army of drones, the way to accomplish that is to keep on keeping on. If you want a society of "thinking" members, teach them to learn to use their imagination and individuality to solve problems. Kids pick things up remarkably quickly and easily. While the concepts may be confusing to us, they will have no issues once that is the norm. How many 12 year olds teach their parents how to use the latest technological gizmo? It just seems to come naturally to them.

He has a valid argument or we'd all know how to use slide-rules and abacus.
Problem is that as we age we get sick of changing constantly to suit the whims of techno-gadgetry.
Change is happening faster and faster. For better or worse future humans will go batty trying to keep up with it. (Technology)

We're already there IMO.

[assateague]

As for the gizmos you mention, that proves my point exactly. Nobody tried to "teach" them how to use an iPad. They figure out the method that works best/fastest for them. If it was left up to the public schools, they wouldn't even be able to work a wired TV remote, because their time would be taken up having 5 different methods for turning the iPad on crammed into their day.

And how could they possibly be able to figure out a complex device like an iPad, when they haven't been "taught" the various methods?


I rest my case.

[aunt betty]

There's a word...I forget what it is but it means there's more than one way to get to Indy.
Gimmee a minute and I'll figure it out. It applies to math.

I think that's part of the argument here.
Some kids are driving semi trucks and need one road while others are driving lexus' and use a faster crazier one.

[Eric Haynes]

As for the gizmos you mention, that proves my point exactly. Nobody tried to "teach" them how to use an iPad. They figure out the method that works best/fastest for them. If it was left up to the public schools, they wouldn't even be able to work a wired TV remote, because their time would be taken up having 5 different methods for turning the iPad on crammed into their day.

And how could they possibly be able to figure out a complex device like an iPad, when they haven't been "taught" the various methods?


I rest my case.

My son learned how to use a Kindle 100% on his own.

By that analogy, you are suggesting we show kids 0-9 and say "figure it out"

[aunt betty]

It's a physics thing...
No matter what path you take its the same amount of "work" to get there. Weird concept.
[attachment=-1]uploadfromtaptalk1400681453611.jpg[/attachment]

[banknote]

In differential equations there is a method for solving called "the method of guessing".
I always thought that was a trip...
Forget but it's a 200 or 300 level college math class. Method Of Guessing...rofl.

It works for finding a square root without a calculator.

[aunt betty]

I have a trig book from 1970's and it has "old math" in it as a joke.

Before long division was invented there were log tables in math books.
Why?
Because in old math they used logarithm properties to solve division problems. Subtract the logs IS division. lol

Will blow your mind if you ever have to use that silly property...
In higher math you do.