Banking

[3legged_lab]

I'm 51 years old, I've never bought a car on credit. There, I said it.

It would be interesting to see what cars would cost if this were the case for everyone...

Doubt it would be 60k for a new diesel crew cab.

[QH's Paw]

I'm 51 years old, I've never bought a car on credit. There, I said it.

It would be interesting to see what cars would cost if this were the case for everyone...

I was shopping for a car recently. I had to keep telling the salespeople I was shopping for a car not credit. They kept telling me what a great deal I could get if I would just buy on their credit. I said how about a good old fashioned cash discount.Some thought I was joking. I'm pretty sure those assholes have a picture of me on their break room dart board.

[sws002]

I'm 51 years old, I've never bought a car on credit. There, I said it.

It would be interesting to see what cars would cost if this were the case for everyone...

I was shopping for a car recently. I had to keep telling the salespeople I was shopping for a car not credit. They kept telling me what a great deal I could get if I would just buy on their credit. I said how about a good old fashioned cash discount.Some thought I was joking. I'm pretty sure those assholes have a picture of me on their break room dart board.

That's always fun, watch their faces drop when you tell them you'll be paying cash. Did that when I test drove the Raptor, fucker about lost it.

[QH's Paw]

I'm 51 years old, I've never bought a car on credit. There, I said it.

It would be interesting to see what cars would cost if this were the case for everyone...

I was shopping for a car recently. I had to keep telling the salespeople I was shopping for a car not credit. They kept telling me what a great deal I could get if I would just buy on their credit. I said how about a good old fashioned cash discount.Some thought I was joking. I'm pretty sure those assholes have a picture of me on their break room dart board.

That's always fun, watch their faces drop when you tell them you'll be paying cash. Did that when I test drove the Raptor, fucker about lost it.

I'm pretty sure when they say my name they turn their head and spit.

[3legged_lab]

I'm 51 years old, I've never bought a car on credit. There, I said it.

It would be interesting to see what cars would cost if this were the case for everyone...

I was shopping for a car recently. I had to keep telling the salespeople I was shopping for a car not credit. They kept telling me what a great deal I could get if I would just buy on their credit. I said how about a good old fashioned cash discount.Some thought I was joking. I'm pretty sure those assholes have a picture of me on their break room dart board.

Pisses me off when you ask how much the car is and they reply back with "what kinda payment are ya lookin for".

[DeadEye_Dan]

Of course they make money with your money. That's what they do. That's like saying "a carpenter builds a house with lumber you bought". Yep, he sure does.

So, if they are still making money with your money, why do they pay .01% on your savings. I'll tell you why, the Federal reserve has the interest rate at nothing. Ok, remember the federal reserve is the bank.

It's the simple theory of supply and demand at work, not some gigantic conspiracy.
What is the general attitude regarding debt in this country since everyone got pinched in 2008? Pretty much everyone is more debt averse than they were. So, people stop borrowing, money stops going out the door, and it starts piling up at the banks. Banks lower lending rates because they have a huge oversupply of cash are trying to stimulate borrowing activity, and in turn, they have to "buy" their funds from depositors at a lower rate. They can't pay you 3% on your savings when no one will take a loan @ 3%, that's it. It's not like savings rates have dropped to zero and banks are still writing loans at 8%.
Now compound that with global financial troubles (Europe is way worse off than we've ever been in the past 10 years) and the fact that foreign funds have been flowing into the US looking for a safe-haven and the problem compounds itself - still more money sitting in the bank that no one wants to borrow.
Honestly, no one in this industry really cares what the interest rates are. We care about are the margins between what we have to buy money for and what we can sell it for - I can promise you those margins have never been thinner than they are today.
We fight for every loan we make and I've seen some deals that I just scratch my head...net margins of less than .5% (compared to a desired 3-4% margin). To put that in perspective - if my margins are that thin (.5%), and a loan for $10,000 goes bad, I'd have to lend $200,000 of good money - just to break even. Want to know why Willie has to jump through 4 dozen hoops to get his refi done? Part if it is new regulations, most of it is because there is no room for error. Zero.

The fed reserve board are political appointees, so again back to the govco. But they could raise the rate tomorrow to 4% or 30% and it wouldn't matter - no one is borrowing money.

[Tomkat]

QH,

Your clip makes it sound like every bank is under the Authority of the Fed. In reality, member banks choose to operate under the umbrella of the Fed. They have regulation choices. The Fed is one choice, but their are others. A bank is free to choose which regulator they want.

I just wanted to point that out. You may proceed with the trial.


All better now!

[Willie]

Of course they make money with your money. That's what they do. That's like saying "a carpenter builds a house with lumber you bought". Yep, he sure does.

So, if they are still making money with your money, why do they pay .01% on your savings. I'll tell you why, the Federal reserve has the interest rate at nothing. Ok, remember the federal reserve is the bank.

It's the simple theory of supply and demand at work, not some gigantic conspiracy.
What is the general attitude regarding debt in this country since everyone got pinched in 2008? Pretty much everyone is more debt averse than they were. So, people stop borrowing, money stops going out the door, and it starts piling up at the banks. Banks lower lending rates because they have a huge oversupply of cash are trying to stimulate borrowing activity, and in turn, they have to "buy" their funds from depositors at a lower rate. They can't pay you 3% on your savings when no one will take a loan @ 3%, that's it. It's not like savings rates have dropped to zero and banks are still writing loans at 8%.
Now compound that with global financial troubles (Europe is way worse off than we've ever been in the past 10 years) and the fact that foreign funds have been flowing into the US looking for a safe-haven and the problem compounds itself - still more money sitting in the bank that no one wants to borrow.
Honestly, no one in this industry really cares what the interest rates are. We care about are the margins between what we have to buy money for and what we can sell it for - I can promise you those margins have never been thinner than they are today.
We fight for every loan we make and I've seen some deals that I just scratch my head...net margins of less than .5% (compared to a desired 3-4% margin). To put that in perspective - if my margins are that thin (.5%), and a loan for $10,000 goes bad, I'd have to lend $200,000 of good money - just to break even. Want to know why Willie has to jump through 4 dozen hoops to get his refi done? Part if it is new regulations, most of it is because there is no room for error. Zero.

The fed reserve board are political appointees, so again back to the govco. But they could raise the rate tomorrow to 4% or 30% and it wouldn't matter - no one is borrowing money.

Agree...and in the end it was worth playing their game and doing the circus tricks.

[DeadEye_Dan]

I get rate updates throughout the day.

Here is where we start this morning at.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1371130212.281277.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1371130241.349697.jpg

BTW, this isn't some secret squirrel shit. You can track money rates on any of the major stock indices (DJIA, NYSE, CBOT, NASDAQ, CME, etc.) as public knowledge.

[aunt betty]

Imagine waking up one day.
Everything that matters is gone.
http://WhereDemTitsGo.com
Tits dont just disappear...
Someday the federal reserve system will disappear.
Just like that.
50/50 chance it will be today.

[QH's Paw]

Sorry Dan I don't buy it.
You're at a different level than I am and you're a banker, obviously.
At the level where I live, and work my life away, where the common men live and try to pay debt, most say no banks will loan. I hear everyday, "where did all the damn money our government bailed out the banks go?" Then I read they are all paying their TARP back. All so they can pay bonuses they want without the government intervening or dictating rules. Go ahead, look it up.
Show me or, explain to me, how did these banks pay back these billions of dollars and turn profits bigger than the oil companies if they can't loan to anyone.
I totally get you are looking at it from a different perspective but, where did the banks make the billions from?

[assateague]

While I'm not anti-bank by any stretch, I do agree with what QH is saying in that last one. It is damn near impossible to get a loan. And I have said for years, the process is screwed up. People who owe nothing are worse credit risks than those $15,000 in debt. That simply makes no rational sense to me. That's like saying a guy who has been fired from 7 jobs is a better fit than the guy out of college. Just doesn't make sense.

[DeadEye_Dan]

I can't speak with any real knowledge about consumer lending. I don't know what the criteria is or what ratios they are measuring to make their decisions...I can tell you that the "character" of the borrowers is virtually never considered, for fear of being on the wrong side of a discrimination lawsuit.
The world I operate in, we measure all sorts of fancy financial ratios to tell us if a company has the ability to repay its debts under various amounts of financial stress...but that will only tell me if they have he ability to repay the debt, not the willingness to repay the debt. That is 100% a call based on my judgement, and it's the most important thing to consider.

As far a TARP funds...where do I start?
Without question there were banks that needed the money to remain afloat. But the majority of them (and including the TBTF ones) didn't need the money, and didn't want the money.
Example: I worked for the biggest of the big in 2008. The bank received $25bln of TARP in Oct. 2008. In the 4th Quarter of 2008 (Oct/Nov/Dec.) we made new loans totaling $150bln. At 12/31/08 we held over $200bln of the Fed gov, and various state govt's debt. At 12/31/08 we had $210bln of (our own) cash on our balance sheet.
So lets break that down in normal terms.
I take 25 cents from the entire group of members on this forum. The same day I make loans to various members of this forum in the amount of $1.50, and by the way while you (grudgingly) gave me the 25 cents, you really already owed me 8x that amount ($2) from previous loans to build you roads, and schools, and bailout your fucked up SEIU pensions, And after all that transpired, I had $20 in assets including $2.10 of my own cash.
So how was I so quickly able to return your 25 cents + 6 cents of interest a few days later?? (Talk about ass raping interest rates). The answer is I didn't need your 25 cents to begin with. With out it I would have made $1.50 worth of new loans, you still would have owed me $2.00, I would have had $19.75 worth of assets, including $1.85 of my own cash and I wouldn't have had to pay you 6 cents of interest.

I haven't looked into it lately, but 8-10 months ago, the govt had received $323bln of the $300bln it sent out in TARP, with about $3bln still out. That's right...we could erase the $3bln and still outstanding and we'd still have a $20bln profit related to the program.

So why take the money in the first place? The premise was to avoid a run on the banks. If banks A,B,C,D, & E are in good shape, but bank F needs some cash...all the sudden, everyone starts getting scared of bank F and pulling money and the the fear spreads and all the sudden like dominos, over they go.
So, in order to keep the lemmings from going off the cliff, we all take the money. We all look like we're in tough shape. And the crisis is contained.

To that point, 2 banks here in MI that were up shitcreek in 2008, and took TARP, and have been unable to repay it - have been sold this year to acquiring banks. And guess what?? The acquiring banks had to repay the TARP before the regulators would let the transactions close.
All TARP was ever meant to be was a bandaid, it was never meant to be given to banks to send back out the door as loans.

[aunt betty]

I'm 51 years old, I've never bought a car on credit. There, I said it.

It would be interesting to see what cars would cost if this were the case for everyone...

I was shopping for a car recently. I had to keep telling the salespeople I was shopping for a car not credit. They kept telling me what a great deal I could get if I would just buy on their credit. I said how about a good old fashioned cash discount.Some thought I was joking. I'm pretty sure those assholes have a picture of me on their break room dart board.

Pisses me off when you ask how much the car is and they reply back with "what kinda payment are ya lookin for".

When we bought our last vehicle...the salesman insisted his financing vould beat anything we could get.
For a lark...we applied. We already had secured a loan but he didnt know that.
At signing time we compared. You are not supposed to do this...
Our credit union rate was 1.5% lower. He couldnt believe it. Complete denial...
Thats when we asked for a different sales person. Perhaps the sales manager...and grinned.
We made sure liar was not making a penny on the sale. Bought the truck and left.
Pleasure doin business with you. (Not)

The price was so good...we had to deal. Old boy was steaming.

[Tomkat]

Pisses me off when you ask how much the car is and they reply back with "what kinda payment are ya lookin for".

Really? It turns me on.... the last time I head this, I acted like he was a piss ant in a sand pile and casually replied "oh, you dont understand. I am not here to make finance terms. I am here to buy a car."

THAT got him a bit mixed up.

As expected, we had to see the sales manager before we could agree on a price. The whole attidude changes completly when you are paying with cash money. Then you get to the real figures.

[DeadEye_Dan]

I went back and forth with a sales guy once trying to get him to put a price on a vehicle, which he wouldn't do - "just make me an offer" So I got out my check book and wrote him a check.
"We'll that's not enough"...so I tore it up in front of his face and then listened to him and the salesman beg for another chance as they followed me to my truck.

[QH's Paw]

I went back and forth with a sales guy once trying to get him to put a price on a vehicle, which he wouldn't do - "just make me an offer" So I got out my check book and wrote him a check.
"We'll that's not enough"...so I tore it up in front of his face and then listened to him and the salesman beg for another chance as they followed me to my truck.

That's similar to my recent experience except, I made the mistake of contacting them online first. So, they had my email to contact me. Eventually, I was contacted by some sort of person that was trying to find out why I was no longer even talking to them. She wanted to know what they could have done to sell a car to me. I basically told her they probably wouldn't be able to with their current sales style and added a few other comments.

[DeadEye_Dan]

I detest the "process" of buying a vehicle.

I've never lost an asshole contest, but the closest I've been has been at a car dealership.

[jehler]

I love buying new cars, maybe because I was selling boats for so long it's like getting back or something, you have to walk out on the deal at least four times, and the sales manager must regret the deal you sold him for it to be good.

In 2008 I financed 34k and left the dealership with a brand new crew cab diesel and a check for 4k. To this day I think they were confused when they wrote the check and made a mistake

[QH's Paw]

I detest the "process" of buying a vehicle.

I've never lost an asshole contest, but the closest I've been has been at a car dealership.

My wife won't go with me, ever since our 20s(early 80ish). There's a story behind it but, the short form is I looked at the guy, my face was 6" from him, and told him "don't you fuckin' lie to me again". My wife turned red and walked out to the rig and waited. Needless to say it was a fairly cold evening at home that night.
What can I say, I was young. I'm a little more diplomatic but, I still call a spade a spade and, they know what I'm saying when I'm done.

[waterfowlman]

Always buy a car on the last day of the month. Do your homework, get the best price you can from the salesman beforehand. On the last day of the month go to the sales manager and offer him your lowball (reasonable) offer and tell him you'll pay cash and take delivery immediately.
I used to run a yacht for a man who owned a lot of car stores. He would get sales reports daily. The store managers are always looking to boost up their monthly totals and sometimes are a little short of their quotas on the last day of the month. I've personally done it twice and have gotten very good deals both times.

[Willie]

Always buy a car on the last day of the month. Do your homework, get the best price you can from the salesman beforehand. On the last day of the month go to the sales manager and offer him your lowball (reasonable) offer and tell him you'll pay cash and take delivery immediately.
I used to run a yacht for a man who owned a lot of car stores. He would get sales reports daily. The store managers are always looking to boost up their monthly totals and sometimes are a little short of their quotas on the last day of the month. I've personally done it twice and have gotten very good deals both times.

When are you moving to the esva?

[waterfowlman]

Always buy a car on the last day of the month. Do your homework, get the best price you can from the salesman beforehand. On the last day of the month go to the sales manager and offer him your lowball (reasonable) offer and tell him you'll pay cash and take delivery immediately.
I used to run a yacht for a man who owned a lot of car stores. He would get sales reports daily. The store managers are always looking to boost up their monthly totals and sometimes are a little short of their quotas on the last day of the month. I've personally done it twice and have gotten very good deals both times.

When are you moving to the esva?

I should be up there by the end of July Willie.

[Willie]

Always buy a car on the last day of the month. Do your homework, get the best price you can from the salesman beforehand. On the last day of the month go to the sales manager and offer him your lowball (reasonable) offer and tell him you'll pay cash and take delivery immediately.
I used to run a yacht for a man who owned a lot of car stores. He would get sales reports daily. The store managers are always looking to boost up their monthly totals and sometimes are a little short of their quotas on the last day of the month. I've personally done it twice and have gotten very good deals both times.

When are you moving to the esva?

I should be up there by the end of July Willie.

Good deal...you staying for good or still gonna be traveling with the boat?

[Mornin Beef]

What what what??? At least Gm is paying us back in integrals. We gave the banks 700 billion cuz the free market doesnt work for them. Because they are predatory. The main problem within humanity is hunting thy neighbor. The slickest scout is thorugh the banking system. Dirrty fucts we all are.

[Willie]

Always buy a car on the last day of the month. Do your homework, get the best price you can from the salesman beforehand. On the last day of the month go to the sales manager and offer him your lowball (reasonable) offer and tell him you'll pay cash and take delivery immediately.
I used to run a yacht for a man who owned a lot of car stores. He would get sales reports daily. The store managers are always looking to boost up their monthly totals and sometimes are a little short of their quotas on the last day of the month. I've personally done it twice and have gotten very good deals both times.

When are you moving to the esva?

I should be up there by the end of July Willie.

White marlins will be biting by then pretty good too.

[DeadEye_Dan]

What what what??? At least Gm is paying us back in integrals. We gave the banks 700 billion cuz the free market doesnt work for them. Because they are predatory. The main problem within humanity is hunting thy neighbor. The slickest scout is thorugh the banking system. Dirrty fucts we all are.

Check your numbers again Beef. $700 is what was set aside, barely half was disbursed. Oh and GM's money? That came out of the TARP funds too.

[Mornin Beef]

What what what??? At least Gm is paying us back in integrals. We gave the banks 700 billion cuz the free market doesnt work for them. Because they are predatory. The main problem within humanity is hunting thy neighbor. The slickest scout is thorugh the banking system. Dirrty fucts we all are.

Check your numbers again Beef. $700 is what was set aside, barely half was disbursed. Oh and GM's money? That came out of the TARP funds too.

thats the issue. of the 7 bil half went directly into the pockets of top execs that are in cahoots with the ex bankers that distribured it. Paulson lined his bros pockets phatback.

[DeadEye_Dan]

You are retarded.

I'm not even going to waste the time putting together the "let me google that for you" link. You're not even close.

[Tomkat]

Everyone forgets about a little group of cocksuckers named AIG Insurance.


They deserve a nutsack cutting and an eternity in hell, too.