My Geothermal Installation in Photos

[tucker]

Update: Suck it, Polar Vortex!

[DeadEye_Dan]

Nice

[Olly]

I really like this thread, very interesting. Thanks for sharing!

[assateague]

At that rate she'll be paying for herself by 2026 or so

[tucker]

At that rate she'll be paying for herself by 2026 or so

From my accountant yesterday - "looks good for a $9775 tax credit for 2013."

[DeadEye_Dan]

And that's "credit" not "deduction"...damn, that's near 50% of the cost wasn't it??

[assateague]

Well, that's just bullshit.

[jehler]

Well, that's just bullshit.

want a receipt? I'll type up a real official one for $300

[tucker]

And that's "credit" not "deduction"...damn, that's near 50% of the cost wasn't it??

As covered earlier in the thread, it's 30% of the overall cost, and we got the spray foam in the upstairs attic added to the cost to get the credit on that as well.
We just had a rate increase, which is why the energy usage is down 33%, but the dollar amount is only down by 30%.
The chart doesn't show it, but we actually to -4 on our coldest morning a few weeks ago.
The geothermal has strip heaters, but they never turned on, and the house was warm and toasty.

I am also comparing last winter to this winter. Again, the chart doesn't reflect it, but this year has been much colder, and more importantly, cloudy with plenty of snow and ice. I have little doubt that this bill would have been $450 or more with the old heat pumps. I don't miss them a bit.

[assateague]

What's a strip heater? Like a baseboard heater that supplements it somehow?

[jehler]

And that's "credit" not "deduction"...damn, that's near 50% of the cost wasn't it??

As covered earlier in the thread, it's 30% of the overall cost, and we got the spray foam in the upstairs attic added to the cost to get the credit on that as well.
We just had a rate increase, which is why the energy usage is down 33%, but the dollar amount is only down by 30%.
The chart doesn't show it, but we actually to -4 on our coldest morning a few weeks ago.
The geothermal has strip heaters, but they never turned on, and the house was warm and toasty.

I am also comparing last winter to this winter. Again, the chart doesn't reflect it, but this year has been much colder, and more importantly, cloudy with plenty of snow and ice. I have little doubt that this bill would have been $450 or more with the old heat pumps. I don't miss them a bit.

do you have anything that monitors the temp of the pond water that using as a heat exchange? as cold as its been it would be interesting to know how close to 58 its staying, if its much colder you may be able to do even better with a ground loop? have you ever thought about introducing solar into the system?

[tucker]

I can go under the house and insert a thermometer into the inlet and outlet lines to get a reading.
I haven't checked it lately.
A ground loop is typically less efficient at heat transfer, because of the medium in which exists. Drier earth makes it more difficult to take on or shed heat from the lines, while water is highly efficient. So even though the water temps may be higher in late summer or cooler in late winter, the efficiency is going to be equal or greater than a ground loop.

I'm looking at solar, but haven't begun to make a serious investment yet. It would be great to sell back to the grid one day.

[jehler]

I can go under the house and insert a thermometer into the inlet and outlet lines to get a reading.
I haven't checked it lately.
A ground loop is typically less efficient at heat transfer, because of the medium in which exists. Drier earth makes it more difficult to take on or shed heat from the lines, while water is highly efficient. So even though the water temps may be higher in late summer or cooler in late winter, the efficiency is going to be equal or greater than a ground loop.

I'm looking at solar, but haven't begun to make a serious investment yet. It would be great to sell back to the grid one day.

i hear you, around here a ground loop is usually under the water table. I have been kicking around ideas for a home we have coming up of using solar to heat a tank of glycol and then running the loop back through that glycol on its way back if it's temp is higher than the ground loop, in the summer run the hot water intake trough it instead...
Just thoughts

[tucker]

I have been kicking around ideas for a home we have coming up of using solar to heat a tank of glycol and then running the loop back through that glycol on its way back if it's temp is higher than the ground loop, in the summer run the hot water intake trough it instead...
Just thoughts

I'd carefully research which has the greatest ROI, that or solar to electricity. I'd be interested to see which one would pay off the quickest.
Also, a geothermal system, when using the optional de-superheater, produces hot water for domestic use year-round, but especially during the summer months, when there is ample excess heat to be discarded. Mine has it, and I think our summer savings will be even better than what we've seen this winter.

[aunt betty]

I get free heat from burning pallets.
Does that count?
Old school cheepo.

[jehler]

I have been kicking around ideas for a home we have coming up of using solar to heat a tank of glycol and then running the loop back through that glycol on its way back if it's temp is higher than the ground loop, in the summer run the hot water intake trough it instead...
Just thoughts

I'd carefully research which has the greatest ROI, that or solar to electricity. I'd be interested to see which one would pay off the quickest.
Also, a geothermal system, when using the optional de-superheater, produces hot water for domestic use year-round, but especially during the summer months, when there is ample excess heat to be discarded. Mine has it, and I think our summer savings will be even better than what we've seen this winter.

I like solar-electricity if you're off the grid, but not seeing the value now with the way technology is growing, solar-water is so simple its going to be hard to beat, the calculations as to cost savings with the solar-water included in the geothermal loop are way over my head, having an engineer look at it. keep in mind this is for a customer not me, i am still a natural gas conventional heat proponent, but that said, i like to see people that can afford to push the envelope to make the tech grow. i fear its not to far in our future fuel prices will push us all to be looking for the absolute efficiency.

I'm going to have to google the de-superheater, I'm not familiar with that

[jehler]

looked it up, I am familiar with that just not the nomenclature, pretty much the second heat exchanger i was talking to my guy about using the solar hot water in the winter

[Woody]

I have been kicking around ideas for a home we have coming up of using solar to heat a tank of glycol and then running the loop back through that glycol on its way back if it's temp is higher than the ground loop, in the summer run the hot water intake trough it instead...
Just thoughts

I'd carefully research which has the greatest ROI, that or solar to electricity. I'd be interested to see which one would pay off the quickest.
Also, a geothermal system, when using the optional de-superheater, produces hot water for domestic use year-round, but especially during the summer months, when there is ample excess heat to be discarded. Mine has it, and I think our summer savings will be even better than what we've seen this winter.

I like solar-electricity if you're off the grid, but not seeing the value now with the way technology is growing, solar-water is so simple its going to be hard to beat, the calculations as to cost savings with the solar-water included in the geothermal loop are way over my head, having an engineer look at it. keep in mind this is for a customer not me, i am still a natural gas conventional heat proponent, but that said, i like to see people that can afford to push the envelope to make the tech grow. i fear its not to far in our future fuel prices will push us all to be looking for the absolute efficiency.

I'm going to have to google the de-superheater, I'm not familiar with that

Took a class in college, Thermo-Fluid Component Design, the final project was designing exactly what you are talking about doing, John.

If you want, I can see if I can dig up our design and report and send it to you. I cant remember exactly, but I bet it was a 50+ page report. If you read it, it might go a long way towards helping you understand what you are thinking about undertaking.

[tucker]

Yeah, the de-superheater takes excess heat and uses it to create a feed of hot water into the domestic supply, instead of dumping it back into geothermal loop.
My DSH is plumbed to dump hot water into a storage tank (a disconnected water heater), which in turn feeds into my electric water heater.
So instead of raising 55 degree water from my well to 130, I'm starting with 80-100 degree water.

A geothermal system still uses electricity to run the pumps and air handlers (mine is a forced air system), so that's what I was wondering - Whether the greatest benefit would be to get that from a solar array or use solar to generate the hot water.

If I had access to natural gas I would use it. I did for 30 years when we lived in town. Even had my outdoor grill on it. But propane is not cost-effective at all, and that would be my only other delivered option here in the country.

Wood and pellets are fine, if you have the time to mess with them. I can make enough in an hour of work to pay for a weeks worth of heating, so it's just not feasible for me.

[jehler]

Yeah, the de-superheater takes excess heat and uses it to create a feed of hot water into the domestic supply, instead of dumping it back into geothermal loop.
My DSH is plumbed to dump hot water into a storage tank (a disconnected water heater), which in turn feeds into my electric water heater.
So instead of raising 55 degree water from my well to 130, I'm starting with 80-100 degree water.

A geothermal system still uses electricity to run the pumps and air handlers (mine is a forced air system), so that's what I was wondering - Whether the greatest benefit would be to get that from a solar array or use solar to generate the hot water.

If I had access to natural gas I would use it. I did for 30 years when we lived in town. Even had my outdoor grill on it. But propane is not cost-effective at all, and that would be my only other delivered option here in the country.

Wood and pellets are fine, if you have the time to mess with them. I can make enough in an hour of work to pay for a weeks worth of heating, so it's just not feasible for me.

I have always called the de superheater a heat generator, i get its function but think with solar it could work well in the winter in reverse with solar heat gain. my brother is an electronics/programmer nerd, i'm thinking with the right control system and valves it could be automated to only run when its beneficial.

i have limited hands on experience with the solar electric, its badass and I would love to have my whole house solar powered and off the grid. that said, its so expensive, and the way i think panel, battery and inverter technology is going to improve in the next ten years i would be very hesitant to pull the trigger right now

[jehler]

I have been kicking around ideas for a home we have coming up of using solar to heat a tank of glycol and then running the loop back through that glycol on its way back if it's temp is higher than the ground loop, in the summer run the hot water intake trough it instead...
Just thoughts

I'd carefully research which has the greatest ROI, that or solar to electricity. I'd be interested to see which one would pay off the quickest.
Also, a geothermal system, when using the optional de-superheater, produces hot water for domestic use year-round, but especially during the summer months, when there is ample excess heat to be discarded. Mine has it, and I think our summer savings will be even better than what we've seen this winter.

I like solar-electricity if you're off the grid, but not seeing the value now with the way technology is growing, solar-water is so simple its going to be hard to beat, the calculations as to cost savings with the solar-water included in the geothermal loop are way over my head, having an engineer look at it. keep in mind this is for a customer not me, i am still a natural gas conventional heat proponent, but that said, i like to see people that can afford to push the envelope to make the tech grow. i fear its not to far in our future fuel prices will push us all to be looking for the absolute efficiency.

I'm going to have to google the de-superheater, I'm not familiar with that

Took a class in college, Thermo-Fluid Component Design, the final project was designing exactly what you are talking about doing, John.

If you want, I can see if I can dig up our design and report and send it to you. I cant remember exactly, but I bet it was a 50+ page report. If you read it, it might go a long way towards helping you understand what you are thinking about undertaking.

too big to email? if so you could probably skype it to me if I can remember my skype account?

[Woody]

I have been kicking around ideas for a home we have coming up of using solar to heat a tank of glycol and then running the loop back through that glycol on its way back if it's temp is higher than the ground loop, in the summer run the hot water intake trough it instead...
Just thoughts

I'd carefully research which has the greatest ROI, that or solar to electricity. I'd be interested to see which one would pay off the quickest.
Also, a geothermal system, when using the optional de-superheater, produces hot water for domestic use year-round, but especially during the summer months, when there is ample excess heat to be discarded. Mine has it, and I think our summer savings will be even better than what we've seen this winter.

I like solar-electricity if you're off the grid, but not seeing the value now with the way technology is growing, solar-water is so simple its going to be hard to beat, the calculations as to cost savings with the solar-water included in the geothermal loop are way over my head, having an engineer look at it. keep in mind this is for a customer not me, i am still a natural gas conventional heat proponent, but that said, i like to see people that can afford to push the envelope to make the tech grow. i fear its not to far in our future fuel prices will push us all to be looking for the absolute efficiency.

I'm going to have to google the de-superheater, I'm not familiar with that

Took a class in college, Thermo-Fluid Component Design, the final project was designing exactly what you are talking about doing, John.

If you want, I can see if I can dig up our design and report and send it to you. I cant remember exactly, but I bet it was a 50+ page report. If you read it, it might go a long way towards helping you understand what you are thinking about undertaking.

too big to email? if so you could probably skype it to me if I can remember my skype account?

It might be emailable.
I will look for it and let you know if/when I find it.

[tucker]

You could also use dropbox, google drive, or similar.

[Woody]

Found it... It's on its way, let me know if you want to see some of the supporting documents or the matlab code. I have most of them, I think.

Also, I noticed one page in the appendix got corrupted, if you end up needing that let me know. I will try and figure it out.

[3legged_lab]

Well, that's just bullshit.

want a receipt? I'll type up a real official one for $300

I feel like I should be part of this

[3legged_lab]

What's a strip heater? Like a baseboard heater that supplements it somehow?

Heating elements that are inline after the heat pump evap coil. They are staged on if/when Tucker's h/p cant meet demand. Consider it a hair drier on steroids.

[vincentpa]

Either way its a good time frame, it looks like you've got a great system.

I hope so. I tried to research and put as much forethought as possible into it.
Now it's just a matter of waiting and seeing how the savings go.
Last winter our highest monthly bill was just over $400 in February. I'd love to see that cut in half.

That big house only cost you $400?

[tucker]

That big house only cost you $400?

That was last year. This time it was $285 for the same month.
That's all electric, cooking, well, heating, hot water, dishwasher, and I just added a water treatment system that uses a little bit for timed backflushes.

We're also keeping the house warmer this year, by about 2 degrees on average.

[vincentpa]

That big house only cost you $400?

That was last year. This time it was $285 for the same month.
That's all electric, cooking, well, heating, hot water, dishwasher, and I just added a water treatment system that uses a little bit for timed backflushes.

We're also keeping the house warmer this year, by about 2 degrees on average.

Looking at that house , I never would've expected that was you. I thought you were a sheep farmer. Don't know why I thought that but I did. Great house and yard man!

[tucker]

LOL. Sheep farmer? Ewe!

We love the place.
I came home this afternoon and the geese and turkeys were playing king of the mountain on the pond dam.
The geese won, but I snapped a shot while the turkeys were moving off.