I have to know!

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I have to know!

Postby Woody » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:39 pm

Okay, i just want to know.
Lets see if there are some same people over here.

It may not be "legal" per the current accepted practice in court, but do you feel it is within your constitutional rights to un-holster your gun, but not point it at the person or show it in a intensionally threatening manner, prior to an elicit act by an individual threatening great bodily harm to you or another person? With your sole reasoning being your perception and suspicion of an individual based on their appearance and location. Appearance not limited to skin color.

Current legal interpretation...
BRANDISHING Opinion No. 7101 February 6, 2002: …In the absence of any reported Michigan appellate court decisions defining "brandishing," it is appropriate to rely upon dictionary definitions…..the term brandishing is defined as: "1. To wave or flourish menacingly, as a weapon. 2. To display ostentatiously. A menacing or defiant wave or flourish." This definition comports with the meaning ascribed to this term by courts of other jurisdictions…the court recognized that in federal sentencing guidelines, "brandishing" a weapon is defined to mean "that the weapon was pointed or waved about, or displayed in a threatening manner." Applying these definitions to your question, it is clear that a reserve police officer, regardless whether he or she qualifies as a "peace officer," when carrying a handgun in a holster in plain view, is not waving or displaying the firearm in a threatening manner. Thus, such conduct does not constitute brandishing a firearm in violation of section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code. It is my opinion, therefore, that…by carrying a handgun in a holster that is in plain view, does not violate section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code, which prohibits brandishing a firearm in public.

Definitions...
Brandishing.
"1. To wave or flourish menacingly, as a weapon. 2. To display ostentatiously. A menacing or defiant wave or flourish."
wave:
Move one's hand to and fro in greeting or as a signal.
flourish:
A bold or extravagant gesture or action, made esp. to attract the attention of others.
menacingly:
The act of threatening.

display:
Make a prominent exhibition of (something) in a place where it can be easily seen.
ostentatiously:
1. characterized by pretentious show in an attempt to impress others.
2. intended to attract notice: ostentatious charity.
Prominent:
Bold or distinctive

So in a situation like this...
If I witness a man I don't know peering through my neighbors window and I approach him with my hand on my pistol grip still holstered or unholstered but pointed at the ground and ask him what he is doing.

Or this...
The guy peering through the window is dressed in gang related clothing and a ski mask, he is carrying a brick, there has been an escalating number of rape/murders using uzies in the neighborhood, my neighbor is an attractive single mother, and it is 2am.

In your opinion...
Did I move it to and fro in a threatening fashion?

Did I make a bold or extravagant action in a threatening fashion?

IMO:
May have been threatening (only if he was doing something wrong), but I did not wave it or flourish it.

I may have displayed the weapon, but not ostentatiously.

I showed my weapon but not in a pretentious way meant to impress or attract attention.

It was only a precaution, against the idea that he may be dangerous.

On the other site the concincus surprisingly was that I did not have right to take this precaution even when baring current legal interpretations.

What do you all think?
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Re: I have to know!

Postby assateague » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:42 pm

Personally, I think I should be able to point it at someone as well. What's the difference between that and cocking back a fist? What fucking legal genius decided I had to take a punch in the head before taking care of myself? If a gun pointed at someone persuades them to walk away, how is that not a good thing? And I don't care if they're scared, angry, or emotionally scarred. None of those things are protected by law, but my physical health damn sure is.
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Re: I have to know!

Postby jarbo03 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:43 pm

assateague wrote:Personally, I think I should be able to point it at someone as well. What's the difference between that and cocking back a fist? What fucking legal genius decided I had to take a punch in the head before taking care of myself? If a gun pointed at someone persuades them to walk away, how is that not a good thing? And I don't care if they're scared, angry, or emotionally scarred. None of those things are protected by law, but my physical health damn sure is.


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Re: I have to know!

Postby rebelp74 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:44 pm

assateague wrote:Personally, I think I should be able to point it at someone as well. What's the difference between that and cocking back a fist? What fucking legal genius decided I had to take a punch in the head before taking care of myself? If a gun pointed at someone persuades them to walk away, how is that not a good thing? And I don't care if they're scared, angry, or emotionally scarred. None of those things are protected by law, but my physical health damn sure is.

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Re: I have to know!

Postby Woody » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:55 pm

At least I'm not alone.

Over there, basically I had a semi backing from Spinner and that was it. Astonishing. :tk:

OMG, I have never used that smiley before, TK... That is HIlarious.
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Re: I have to know!

Postby 3legged_lab » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:34 pm

assateague wrote:Personally, I think I should be able to point it at someone as well. What's the difference between that and cocking back a fist? What fucking legal genius decided I had to take a punch in the head before taking care of myself? If a gun pointed at someone persuades them to walk away, how is that not a good thing? And I don't care if they're scared, angry, or emotionally scarred. None of those things are protected by law, but my physical health damn sure is.

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Re: I have to know!

Postby CountryRN » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:21 am

Simple mantra to live by. I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
If placing my hand on my weapon in a situation that I preceive to be dangerous is wrong, then take me to court. At least I lived through it and was able to go home to my wife and kids.
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