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So this new broad I've been seeing just got back from asia and is fucking traumatized from all the poverty she saw. Of course I could give two shits about asia, especially during duck season, but she is serious about trying to figure out how to help. She claims there is enough food in the world and it would just take logitics, but western arrogance is the problem. Personally I think the gates foundation is the epitomy of western arrogance. I hate the idea that people think they can save the planet or a population of people. Am I just an a-hole?

Mornin Beef wrote:So this new broad I've been seeing just got back from asia and is fucking traumatized from all the poverty she saw. Of course I could give two shits about asia, especially during duck season, but she is serious about trying to figure out how to help. She claims there is enough food in the world and it would just take logitics, but western arrogance is the problem. Personally I think the gates foundation is the epitomy of western arrogance. I hate the idea that people think they can save the planet or a population of people. Am I just an a-hole?

Yes No, your probably a realist. The Gates foundation has done a good job of helping them though, they tackle tough issues and take a lot of low hanging fruit that helps the most.

To answer your a-hole question, yes. The world problem, no your not going to change it, unless you can supply them with about 10 billion condoms.


... And joking about the a-hole thing. Kinda. Sorta. Maybe.

If the gates foundation would be up front and say we need to do this for ourselves, because it will help them sleep at night etc etc then I could dismiss the idea of their arrogance. When I move a turtle out of the road I know I am doing this for myself first and am not arrogant enough to believe I know what is best for the turtle and its population.

Tell her she needs to stop trying to push her western ideal of "success and happiness" on people that are living and smiling the same way they have been for years, and that we are the ones that could learn from them instead of living in our instant gratification lifestyle... Hat will buy you some time

Slap da bitcch and tell her to get real!
Like jehler said..those folks have been living likr that for tens of thousands of years and didnt know they were poor and unhappy until SOMEONE TOLD THEM they were poor and unhappy.

i agree, you're a realist. The planet wasn't meant to hold this many people, we've far exceeded our carrying capacity based on resource availability. Agroecology is trying to develop better methods to grow food, they may or may not work. but do you think that people who shit in their own drinking water will ever actually use sustainable systems? we, the western world, give that technology away to those people.


we're not going to be able to feed everyone.

jehler wrote:Tell her she needs to stop trying to push her western ideal of "success and happiness" on people that are living and smiling the same way they have been for years, and that we are the ones that could learn from them instead of living in our instant gratification lifestyle... Hat will buy you some time

This^^

I"m in the same boat as you Beef. Nothing you can do will change the way it is or their society. Once she's home long enough and eats enohg Big Mac's she;ll slide back into the right way of thinking.

She isn't naiive and doesn't believe these folks need an injection of western culture, but believes her life is better spent handing out malaria nets and food. I believe these people if afforded the opportunity would rape and kill her. I think helping these people just get by does more harm. If these people aren't afforded the full experience of their suffering they will never get angry enough to fix their oppression.

And if they have no will to rise up and solve their oppression, then they can just continue on with suppressing themselves for all I care.

(MT)Montanafowler wrote:i agree, you're a realist. The planet wasn't meant to hold this many people, we've far exceeded our carrying capacity based on resource availability. Agroecology is trying to develop better methods to grow food, they may or may not work. but do you think that people who shit in their own drinking water will ever actually use sustainable systems? we, the western world, give that technology away to those people.


we're not going to be able to feed everyone.

MF nailed it on the food supply part. Those people are happy the way things are otherwise they would change.


Sent from my Vox Mortem

They can't solve their oppression, not without exodus.

It just comes down to geography and pedology. The course of human history, the rise and fall of empires, the haves and have-nots, has always been determined by soil type. Think American spirit and ingenuity made everything you see in this country possible? Wrong, everyone has that spirit and ingenuity, they are limited by whats in their soil. It determines attainable standard of living and what type of government is likely to form in a region.

Have you hugged an Mollisol today?

Jehler killed it, those people know more abut living than we could ever dream.

See Sam Kinison on this subject. He pretty much covered it back in 1991 or so.

bill herian wrote:Jehler killed it, those people know more abut living than we could ever dream.

x2, it all comes back to money doesn't buy happiness. That said, the western world has given plenty of humanitarian aid throughout the decades, and yet the same problems still occur in the same areas, those people have no desire to change.

jehler wrote:Tell her she needs to stop trying to push her western ideal of "success and happiness" on people that are living and smiling the same way they have been for years, and that we are the ones that could learn from them instead of living in our instant gratification lifestyle... Hat will buy you some time

X2

Many of those "poor" people living in SE Asia are much happier with much less than most westerners. I've seen many folks living in what most Americans would consider abject poverty out in the rural areas of Asia. They seem to be very happy with their lives.

assateague wrote:See Sam Kinison on this subject. He pretty much covered it back in 1991 or so.

Spot on. He even hinted at soil fertility.

assateague wrote:See Sam Kinison on this subject. He pretty much covered it back in 1991 or so.

You beat me to it.




Moveeeeee!

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1GjyrQiSRs

Funny Guy..The world hunger skit starts at about 3:55

You're not an asshole beef. There are a ton of reasons for "poverty" around the world. That being said our western culture has probaby done more harm than good around the world for various reasons from our agriculture pratices and subsidies to the very charity that is supposed to help the poor. Not a whole lot you can do as an individual if you ask me. Just gotta do whats best for you and what you think is right. I think Jehler hit the nail on the head. There is probably more for us to learn from them than there is for them to learn from us. Maybe they have it right?

We can even solve poverty in this country. We had a coal mine close at home and couldn't believe the families that eating breakfast at the school

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realunlucky wrote:We can even solve poverty in this country. We had a coal mine close at home and couldn't believe the families that eating breakfast at the school

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This. Tell that dumb woman how about let's take care of our own yard first, before we worry about if our neighbors down the street have cut their lawn lately.

Mornin Beef wrote:So this new broad I've been seeing just got back from asia and is fucking traumatized from all the poverty she saw. Of course I could give two shits about asia, especially during duck season, but she is serious about trying to figure out how to help. She claims there is enough food in the world and it would just take logitics, but western arrogance is the problem. Personally I think the gates foundation is the epitomy of western arrogance. I hate the idea that people think they can save the planet or a population of people. Am I just an a-hole?

Not an ahole, the world is over populated. That's the problem. Let ma nature do her thing.

assateague wrote:

realunlucky wrote:We can even solve poverty in this country. We had a coal mine close at home and couldn't believe the families that eating breakfast at the school

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This. Tell that dumb woman how about let's take care of our own yard first, before we worry about if our neighbors down the street have cut their lawn lately.

I'm with assa on this. Help out our own people first.

also sounds like this relationship will be even shorter than a celebrity marriage.

Be yourself and speak your mind beef, she'll stick around it she won't

I implore you, Beef, remember the Theory of Medium™ as you have this discussion with her.

Bustin my tail at work fellas, will respond when I get home. Your going down bill.

Mornin Beef wrote:Bustin my tail at work fellas, will respond when I get home. Your going down bill.

jehler wrote:Tell her she needs to stop trying to push her western ideal of "success and happiness" on people that are living and smiling the same way they have been for years, and that we are the ones that could learn from them instead of living in our instant gratification lifestyle... Hat will buy you some time

she said she witnessed deplorable conditions and witnessed no such happiness. she was very mad about american companies utilizing their poor folk for gain. she was telling me all these ways to ensure the products she buys are not produced from these ways. she wishes to try and offset these abuses with acts with everything she can do.