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Wife and I were watching the "local news". *(not local at all)
Story on the new Tesla got us giggling.
What size plug does it take? (110? 220? 240? 480?) Does it require industrial ;power supply?
How many watts? Where can I charge it besides the special port in our garage?
It it toxic waste when it's kaput? Is it eco-friendly?
How much to repair? New batteries cost how much?
How far on a charge? Will it make it from Manila Arkansas to Champaign, Illinois on one charge?

She said, "we shall take delivery in Manila and drive it home. If we can get it home without special help from Tesla we'll take two. Deliver them to Manila and we'll start paying the instant we get them both to our house in C-U. (if we make it)

Elon Musk is stinky like an old beaver or muskrat.
The kids are actually looking at solar shingles Musk designed.
Smashed their dreams of free electricity when I asked them "how many batteries does it take and how much for all the extra equipment and where you going to put it?....will it charge a Tesla Model 3 overnight when the sun is not shining?"

Millennials are suckers for this kind of thing.

@ Olly. Starting to see why I distrust new technologies yet?
The led headlight on my boat is nice but...
Have you seen any of the brand-new cars with led headlights yet? I see them all the time with one side burnt out. Brand new car a one-eyed bandit. That makes me question why it's not warrantied and replaced like right now. Uhhhhh. Look up how much new headlights are for a 2017 Cadillac CT6. (if you can find them)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/teslas-hong-kong-sales-gutted-by-tax-change-1499598003

In March, shortly after the tax change was announced and ahead of the April 1 deadline, 2,939 Tesla vehicles were registered there—almost twice as many as in the last six months of 2016.

The end of the tax exemption “has really put the brakes on electric-vehicle adoption in Hong Kong,” said Mark Webb-Johnson, a founder of Charged Hong Kong, a group that promotes electric vehicles.

As a result of the new policy, the cost of a basic Tesla Model S four-door car in Hong Kong​has effectively risen to around $130,000 from less than $75,000.

Welfare for the rich. That's all this stuff is.

http://watchdog.org/244308/subsidies-electric-car/

For more than 15 years, Georgia offered one of the country’s most generous tax credits for people who bought electric cars.

But the $5,000 subsidy went away three months ago and a look by Watchdog.org at how the tax credit’s expiration has affected sales shows a dramatic drop in the number of all-electric cars such as Teslas and Nissan Leafs purchased in the Peach State.

Maybe someday these things will work. Electric motors are great. Batteries suck. Until they figure out how to make a cheap, durable battery that doesn't weigh a huge amount or take up a huge amount of physical space that can store the same amount of energy as your gas tank can and can be refilled in about the same amount of time, forget it. And the physics of storing that much energy don't look good that they will ever get there. Gasoline is just great stuff and really hard to replace. Think about the massive amount of energy we have in a thin-walled 5 gallon gas can. That's the competition. It's friggin' amazing stuff.

Electric cars made their debut in the mid 19th century. (1850's)
Up until around 1900 an electric car held the land-speed record.
You'd think something that has been around for over 150 years would have caught on in a big way by now.
I mean if it was the cat's meow we'd all be driving them.

It is highly unlikely that I will ever install a windmill on my roof along with solar power and put the system in so I can charge the Musk-mobile. I do know someone that's uber-rich, health professionals, that actually have a Chevy Volt in the garage charging from their windmill and solar panels. The bee club has several of them and the rest of the C-U liberals think it's great. They don't even notice that they subsidized the whole shebang.

They don't own jon boats that need towing to ice covered boat ramps.
I'm not very popular with the bee bunch because they frown on gas-hog 4x4's UNTIL they need something heavy moved then they think of me. Great just great.

According to a random YouTube video the newer models of electric cars will have a range of 1200 km or 745 miles.
Yeah sure. Maybe at 35 mph but try 70mph and I bet the range goes wayyyy down.

Little common sense rule of physics.
"Double your speed and it takes four times the rate of energy-consumption"
Wind resistance and friction is why.

This means you get way better mileage by going slower. Everyone knows that though.

And don't drive when it is too hot or too cold so you don't have to use your air conditioning or heater either.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/522496/electric-vehicles-out-in-the-cold/

Cold weather presents two main challenges for electric vehicles: cold air limits battery performance, and running the heater drains the battery. As temperatures go below freezing, some drivers accustomed to traveling 250 miles on a single charge have seen their car’s range drop to 180 miles. Drivers in extreme climates might see the range decrease even more. That might force drivers to choose cars with bigger batteries than they would need in the summer, adding $10,000 or more to the cost of the cars.

If I'm gunna drive electric I'll put a damn cordless drill on my bicycle.

aunt betty wrote:If I'm gunna drive electric I'll put a damn cordless drill on my bicycle.

As a second car where all you do is run around town and back and forth to work with it, it might make sense.

If you need it for just about anything else, it seems like such a headache if not an expensive headache.

I'm going to hitch the boat and drive a few hundred miles now and again

Pretty much taking off and going anywhere means you need to get a rental car or truck.

Most people simply do not live a life where a car with the limitations of an electric car make sense for them.

To brag about how awesome you are because you have an electric car, well some people can afford that. Given the money they waste on other things, what's the big deal.

However, when they get the driverless cars down and people are not freaked by the idea (which may never happen), the economics changes completely.

BTW, I love the really old motorcycles. They pretty much just put a lawnmower engine on a bicycle.

I'm making fun of electric cars.

Am considering building a schwinn beach cruiser into a motorized bike but the kind that is 49 cc and uses chainsaw 2-cycle gas. The kits are cheap kits from china. Costs around $110. Then you can hop them up with different spockets for speed, tuned exhaust, boost bottle, and a racing carb. lol
They look kind of fun. A guy zips by every day at about 3pm on his way to work. I followed him and he was going 30 mph.

Champaign has a network of bike paths. Concrete paved and pretty cool and nobody rides bikes anymore. One is along a creek. Nice.

I found a $200 beach cruiser on the tracks behind my house in da hood. No serial number. It was sort of trashed but the rims are true.
Brakes needed love and it had two flats. Other than that new. The tires are fresh. I spent ten bucks on inner tubes.

aunt betty wrote:Wife and I were watching the "local news". *(not local at all)

Have you seen any of the brand-new cars with led headlights yet? I see them all the time with one side burnt out. Brand new car a one-eyed bandit.

Have been driving around with a day time running light out on my Tahoe for years now, see plenty others with similar issue........traditional light bulb. Would replace it with an LED tomorrow if I could

Darren wrote:

aunt betty wrote:Wife and I were watching the "local news". *(not local at all)

Have you seen any of the brand-new cars with led headlights yet? I see them all the time with one side burnt out. Brand new car a one-eyed bandit.

Have been driving around with a day time running light out on my Tahoe for years now, see plenty others with similar issue........traditional light bulb. Would replace it with an LED tomorrow if I could

If mine ever burn out I'll try them blue bastages.
My headlights last long time because I keep the blinker fluid topped off at all times.

Electric cars are coming to the market more and more but I have a couple of questions regarding them.

1. Where in the hell do you charge these things other than at home? There doesn't appear to be a "charging network" anywhere. In the future someone is going to start a chain of charging stations and make a pile of dough. Just like gas stations, there will be charging stations all over..............at some point.

2. Why don't car manufacturers make the hood, roof and trunk decks out of solar panels? In places like Arizona, NM etc. you could park your car anywhere and get a free solar charge while you were shopping.

There have been big improvements in battery technology but we are still waiting for a major break through before these cars really can take off................

P.S. Take a look at Tesla's web site. The cars look great, however, the minimum starting price for one, not an S3, is 80K+, the S3 starts for 140K. At those prices most of the general public will be locked out.............that includes me.

Don you forgot to add, "how does the road-tax on gasoline get replaced when everyone drives an electric car?".
My liberal beekeepers friends bitch and moan about the weirdest things.
They bitch about my gas-hog 4x4 with a V8 and big off road tires.
Then they turn around and bitch about the electric cars not paying their taxes.
Have never met such a weird bunch outside of a duck blind. lol

don novicki wrote:Why don't car manufacturers make the hood, roof and trunk decks out of solar panels?

Solar panels are a very expensive way to produce electricity and as you note, they are not cheap to start. They only work when the government subsidizes heavily beyond certain niche applications and this is not one of those niches.

My guess is that the solar panels could only provide a small fraction of the total energy the car would need on an average day.

The average household uses about 30 kW-hr per day. The Tesla battery I believe is 100 kW-hr of capacity for the long ranges advertised.

If you cover your entire roof top in Arizona, I believe you are looking at an average of around 20 to 30 kW-hr per day. So jut covering the car, would be just a few per day and you need probably 10 times that or more.

don novicki wrote:Where in the hell do you charge these things other than at home?

It's not just where, but also how quickly.

https://www.cars.com/articles/2013/11/how-quickly-does-the-tesla-model-s-battery-charge/

Stop at a Tesla Supercharger station and you can top off the tank with 300 miles of range in just an hour,

Even with the best of the best, a refueling stop every 300 miles is a minimum of 1 hour.
This is a few years old article, but it has not and will not fundamentally change.

don novicki wrote: the minimum starting price for one, not an S3, is 80K+, the S3 starts for 140K.

Electric engines are great. Batteries suck. The engineering problem is that it takes a lot of energy to push a car around and it is very difficult (there are real physical limits on density of chemical energy) to store a large amount of it in a small volume with a small mass.

All trains use electric engines. However, they either have a diesel electric generator so they store the energy as diesel fuel and convert it to electrical energy as needed. It's easy to store a lot of energy with gasoline or diesel. That's what batteries have to compete with and the competition is really quite amazing. If they don't store the energy as diesel, they are attached to the grid and the vast majority of the energy is stored elsewhere as coal, nuclear, natural gas, or water at an elevated height provided on demand.

Since gasoline is so efficient at storing energy, we can live with a lot of inefficiency. We can use heavier cheaper (and normally safer) steels, cheaper power trains that are less efficient, less aerodynamic designs, less efficient heaters, less efficient air conditioners, etc. We can get by with a lot simpler and cheaper designs because the trade off is low cost gasoline that you can easily store all your practical requirements. My grandfather had a truck with 2 20 gallon tanks. You could do that easily on any car if you needed it, but given how quickly and easy it is to fill up, no reason to any more for most.

A gallon of gasoline has about 33 kw-hr of energy per gallon. Now you have to convert that to useful energy, so you lose a large fraction, probably around half. 20 gallons x 30 kw-hr per gallon x 50% efficiency = 300 kw-hr equivalent. That is 3 times the energy of the biggest tesla battery.

So they need to cut the energy required dramatically. That gets expensive. Higher cost, lower density materials. Everything has to be more efficient and use more expensive materials. Tons of engineering to get everything better and you have to pay for that.

And then there is the cost of storing the energy. Your typical lead-acid battery like you use to run the electric trolling motor is likely around 100 amp-hrs of capacity. For a 12 V battery, that is about 1 kW-hr of energy and weighs about 40 lbs. To store 100 kW-hr of energy, you would need 2 tons worth of batteries. And 100 batteries would cost thousands of dollars for the "cheap" batteries and still have 1/3rd the energy that you have in your gas tank.

It really truly may be a bridge too far.

Unless of course the government simply orders you to do it and eat the huge cost or hides all the cost by taking it from you in taxes so you don't see the huge cost like they currently do with the wind and solar power plants being built today.

"Electric engines" made me laugh out loud.
How about defining what a joule is without looking it up?
You're dancing with that word and have not used it yet.
Heading out to the dentist so take your time.

I've not used a joule

I it a W-s. 1 Mev is 1.602e-13 J.

You do comprehend that the primary thing I do is about boiling water and converting it to electrical energy.

Or or you quibbling about engine versus motor?

140K. I have no further interest..............A.B. have no fear the federal Gov't will come up with SOMETHING, to replace the gas tax.

SpinnerMan wrote:I've not used a joule

I it a W-s. 1 Mev is 1.602e-13 J.

You do comprehend that the primary thing I do is about boiling water and converting it to electrical energy.

Or or you quibbling about engine versus motor?

So you're the coolie on the Sand Pebbles?


You know a watt is a joule per second and when you multiplied kilowatts times hours the result is joules.
You were talking about that but made it sound complicated. Oh what fun we're having.

Suppose Assateague has a 9% solution of some sort of chemical and he has 1.35 ml of the stuff.
He wants to dilute it and get a 0.25% solution.
How much water should he add?

This is a real-life problem. He asked me this afternoon to figure it out.
How much water should he add?


Don't forget about significant figures.

aunt betty wrote:Suppose Assateague has a 9% solution of some sort of chemical and he has 1.35 ml of the stuff.
He wants to dilute it and get a 0.25% solution.
How much water should he add?

This is a real-life problem. He asked me this afternoon to figure it out.
How much water should he add?


Don't forget about significant figures.

No stopping the government from wasting billions is a real life problem as well.

There is a scientific reason that battery powered transportation is expensive. Why barring some unforeseen miracle it will never be the cost effective transportation for the masses. Sure the rich can choose chauffeur-driven limos or high end sports cars or teslas or whatever the fad of the rich is. Currently that is being "green" with a large part of it paid for by the average American worker through taxes that come ultimately from them in the form of lower wages and/or higher cost of products. To quote Adam Smith the man that first so well described and explained market economics "In those ignorant times, it was not understood, that the profits of merchants are a subject not taxable directly; or that the final payment of all such taxes must fall, with a considerable overcharge, upon the consumers." The rich will never be less rich because you tax them more, so where is the money really coming from?

Why is electricity so cheap, safe, and reliable in the U.S? That is the real world. The governments of places like CA or the former Obama administration are working real hard to upend that. In large part, because they don't understand the reasons that just putting up some solar panels doesn't do it. They don't understand that you can not fit 10 gallons of **** into a 5-gallon hat. Most people actually do not when it is not something that they don't have direct experience with. They know what they want and therefore believe it just should be doable at a reasonable price. And given how corrupt are society has become, they simply believe that anyone that tells them otherwise is lying.

47.4 ml

Just enough to get to the desired dilution.............................

don novicki wrote:Just enough to get to the desired dilution.............................

I have no idea what Assa was diluting. Probably some horse-fly spray or something like that.
Says he needed 0.25% strength. Must be some powerful stuff if he started with such a small amount.
Tasting it was out of the question apparently.
He asks me about dilution and concentration problems. Usually alcohol related.

Don't waste your money on the blue lights. They don't help you see any better but you can blind the shit out of other people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

aunt betty wrote:47.4 ml

You didn't specify weight, vilume, or molar concentration.

SpinnerMan wrote:

aunt betty wrote:47.4 ml

You didn't specify weight, vilume, or molar concentration.

How much water do you add?
Seemed pretty straight forward.

Assa didn't say either. Sometimes you have to figure that stuff out for yourself.
You know as well as I do that a cc of water is a ml is a gram.

Next time I'll draw you a picture.
All I wanted was you to check my work and you'd rather play some sort of "it was a bad question" bs.
Ok fine.

Here. Check it. You have to do some "rounding" to get three sig figs.

At this point it's too late anyway. Assa already killed his wife's horse or whatever he was trying to kill.

aunt betty wrote:"Electric engines" made me laugh out loud.
How about defining what a joule is without looking it up?
You're dancing with that word and have not used it yet.
Heading out to the dentist so take your time.

I thought it was in the same vein as this comment.

Sorry. I get you need to add 47.25 ml. You already have 1.35 total.

1.35 x .09 / (47.25 + 1.35) = .0025

See? It wasn't that hard.
Free-body diagram would have helped.
I seriously doubt assa even has the capability to measure very precise. Got him in the ball park.

Fuck Tesla Motors.
"Boat motors" are goofy as fuck too.
Have lost so many crain bells from drinkin' all night with them pesky pay-to-hunt guys that I'm not so sure about anything anymore. Keep your cottin' pickin' hands out of the pickle jar is rule #3 or was it 4?

If I'm ever going to pass assateague in post count I'm gunna have to work at this shit.

Just noticed that the Model 3 has a "bio defense mode" in case of a bio weapon attack. Yeah that should be real handy for when an Anthrax tipped weapon comes cruising into Girard Pa..