Using the Big Muddy to help save the marsh

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Re: Using the Big Muddy to help save the marsh

Postby Darren » Tue May 29, 2018 11:11 am

ohhhhh man, big bucket of worms there. It's a really, REALLY complex problem down this way in SE La with physical, economic, and socioeconomic factors in play. I'll give you some bullets below:

1.) The Mighty Miss. formed much of S. La with various deltas that constantly moved over time many many years ago

2.) The construction of levees got rid of that process of constantly putting muddy water across wetlands to nourish them and build them through sediment deposition. Now that sediment laden water just falls off the continental shelf below Venice, La.

3.) People now live in places that used to be nourished and now have been left to erosion with the river's path now controlled. The firm I work for is currently helping with an effort to relocate the nation's very first "climate change refugees"....that is a group of people, in this case an indian tribe, that's lived in a remote area of coastal Louisiana that's now inundated on a routine basis. Some want to leave, some are adamant about staying put.

4.) People dont want to leave those places but BOTH erosion AND subsidence are taking their toll, the land that is there is literally sinking. Couple that with some slight sea level rise, and you have roads flooding that didn't used to, higher storm surges from hurricanes, etc.

5.) These are sediment diversions that are proposed as part of the coastal master plan, and they take some time to show progress. Much of it is too little, too late, but there is significant evidence of new land growth in recent years where deltaic processes have been allowed to do their thing without levees (see Atchafalaya River delta/Wax Lake area).
https://phys.org/news/2017-02-nasa-rari ... eltas.html

6.) Overall these diversions will help, but at a cost. Some fisherman, both commercial and recreational, will be displaced. Game species are not big on muddy fresh water, nor are crabs, oysters and shrimp, so that will have impacts to economic engines in the region. (e.g. guys want to keep catching their fish and shrimp, crabs, oysters, etc. right where they always have, even though it may not be where they should be). These species will be displaced, that makes the fisherman work harder, they get upset.

7.) The alternative to diversions is dredging, which works, and works immediately, BUT is extremely costly.

8.) Those that want diversions are highly vocal, those that are opposed are highly vocal. Makes for interesting and fruitless public meetings.

This particular diversion near Myrtle Grove is one that's been fast tracked for permitting, there is no time to spare, each day the coast loses a whole lot, something like a football field per hour is what's widely speculated.

That's the gist of it off the top of my head. I stay on the periphery of this issue, it's a hot one down this way.
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Re: Using the Big Muddy to help save the marsh

Postby Darren » Tue May 29, 2018 2:11 pm

If you care to learn more about the restoration projects for S. Louisiana, visit here with some time on your hands:

http://coastal.la.gov/

Specifically, the 2017 Coastal Master Plan

http://coastal.la.gov/our-plan/2017-coa ... ster-plan/

To give you some context.......the 2017 coastal master plan strikes projects that were thought viable in the 2012 edition, the scene is changing that fast.
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Re: Using the Big Muddy to help save the marsh

Postby aunt betty » Tue May 29, 2018 3:21 pm

Thank you Darren. I wrote and deleted a long post that basically said "we need to quit fuckin' with it".
I'd have opened an industrial sized can of worms because "that dumbass Yankee ain't never been south of Arkansas (except for central America). Lived in Georgia at some Army base for a while then another one in North Carolina.

Anyhow you handled the situation well and with dignity.
I believe that the solution is the problem and the problem is the solution. (It's complicated)
I've heard that it's incredibly stupid to fuck around with a crazy man's head.
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Re: Using the Big Muddy to help save the marsh

Postby aunt betty » Tue May 29, 2018 3:29 pm

Hey I watched a video produced by that Tabasco Sauce Company. They have a program for protecting themselves that seems to be working. Might want to find it and look at it.
Very interesting video on the history of Tabasco, the island (Avery Island) where they make it, etc.
Goes in depth about how they're fighting erosion by planting grasses and such.
I've heard that it's incredibly stupid to fuck around with a crazy man's head.
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Re: Using the Big Muddy to help save the marsh

Postby DComeaux » Tue May 29, 2018 4:05 pm

In short, it'll hurt a few now if the restoration moves froward, and hurt everyone in the future if it doesn't, more so those that live near the coast, and are fighting the restoration. They're moving whole villages now due to loss of land.

They mention "climate change", and I do agree that water levels are rising, but we lost our land rebuilding machine to levees.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/03/us/resettling-the-first-american-climate-refugees.html
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Re: Using the Big Muddy to help save the marsh

Postby aunt betty » Tue May 29, 2018 5:46 pm

1. When they start changing the elevations of everything is when I'll start believing in rising sea levels.

For instance the airport in C-U hasn't lost any elevation "above sea level" therefore it's the same number of feet above sea level as it always was for my entire life. Look it up for yourselves. Willard Airport Elevation is 755 still.


2. When they make the duck season shorter due to climate change is when I will consider believing that it's man-made and reversible.

Until those two things happen I'm calling bs.
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Re: Using the Big Muddy to help save the marsh

Postby Darren » Wed May 30, 2018 6:59 am

DComeaux wrote:In short, it'll hurt a few now if the restoration moves froward, and hurt everyone in the future if it doesn't, more so those that live near the coast, and are fighting the restoration. They're moving whole villages now due to loss of land.

They mention "climate change", and I do agree that water levels are rising, but we lost our land rebuilding machine to levees.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/03/us/resettling-the-first-american-climate-refugees.html


Yep thats the project we're involved in, part of the group reviewing the new location they'll be moving to.

Sea level rise is one thing, but many neglect to account for subsidence in our area, and that's just as big, if not bigger, of a problem. Couple all of this with the oil & gas companies of old dredging channels crisscrossing the coast which served to inject saltwater into what was previously freshwater areas, thus killing them off. Again.....whoolllee lot of moving parts here, lots of stakeholders.


@ Aunt Betty, yea Avery Island is a neat place with a huge waterfowling heritage. They are fighting coastal erosion, but not winning. Holding on to what they have is progress nonetheless. Really neat place to visit if you ever make it down this way
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Re: Using the Big Muddy to help save the marsh

Postby DComeaux » Wed May 30, 2018 11:32 am

The oil company's should play a big part in rebuilding our coast. If' you'd fly out of Morgan city south, like I did for many years, you'd see the maze that is dredged oilfield canals. This, in what was once a pristine marsh, and that's just one area. The entire coastal LA marsh is sliced to bits. I blame the state more than I do the oil companies, for their reckless$$$$$$$$$ ways early on.

I'm pretty confident, that during the remainder of my time here on earth, that all I'll see is a continued degradation of our coastal areas. Not sure what another 20 years ( if I'd be so lucky) will bring for the marshes of Louisiana without serious restoration work.

Money raised, and or allocated for this stuff is just being burned away on meetings and engineering. This has been going for 15+ years.
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Re: Using the Big Muddy to help save the marsh

Postby aunt betty » Wed May 30, 2018 2:06 pm

They do the same exact thing up here but no oil companies or canals.

The neighborhood I live in was sort of joined with another that was later separated when the federal govt cut it in half by running an Interstate highway thru the center and turned one subdivision into two. So long ago nobody under 70 can remember. Neighborhood was built in the 1950's then annexed around 1990. It's been in the city for close to 30 years and they just can't seem to come up with the money for sidewalks and street lights. We're taxed like it's already there.


In process of installing the highway they cut the sewer and storm drains. We'll figure it all out later and it's not later yet.
Last year it was pointed out that hey we have a flooding problem in these two neighborhoods that the city annexed but has yet to do any improvements to or repaired any of it's problems. They charge taxes like it's in the city but service-wise it's not but it is.
Yeah no yeah no yeah you want some carmex?


So they hired a firm to investigate for $100,000. No word yet and it's been two years.

I liked it better when it was "just in the county". Same amount of police protection, less confusion, WE COULD BURN STUFF...
Sorry I got way off topic. Damn gubment can't manage a fish tank with two mated hamsters but they're going to fix the Louisiana coastline.
I've heard that it's incredibly stupid to fuck around with a crazy man's head.
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Re: Using the Big Muddy to help save the marsh

Postby Darren » Thu May 31, 2018 7:41 am

Few links if anyone's interested in seeing the different angles of this beast:

http://www.thesavelouisianacoalition.com/about.html
Note the board members of this coalition: marina owners, oyster/commercial fisherman and purveyors, fishing guides,


http://www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/ ... e605c.html

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... g-quickly/
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Re: Using the Big Muddy to help save the marsh

Postby DComeaux » Thu May 31, 2018 1:31 pm

This is solid proof that diversions work. If the eastern people wait too long, the gulf will be at lapalco blvd in the not to distant future.

http://www.watchthedeltagrow.com/home-waxlakedelta/
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Re: Using the Big Muddy to help save the marsh

Postby DComeaux » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:25 pm

BGcorey wrote:
DComeaux wrote:This is solid proof that diversions work. If the eastern people wait too long, the gulf will be at lapalco blvd in the not to distant future.

http://www.watchthedeltagrow.com/home-waxlakedelta/
i may have missed it, but how long did it take to build the small amount of land that it has?


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Time starts in October 1984 and ends in 2014. Just a trickle of water when compared to the Mississippi. Remember, the largest and most land building time is during the spring. The remainder of the year current slows and sediment drops out before reaching the beach.
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