Firewood

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Firewood

Postby Eric Haynes » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:58 pm

Anyone else burn wood during the winter?

I have an indoor wood stove I was burning in for a couple years, with a $600 heating bill all season, the price of the wood. While it was cheap, it was also a lot of work and a lot of cleaning bringing wood in the house all winter. The wood stove is centrally located so it heated pretty well. I also have a new Munchkin boiler with baseboard, and in-floor heat that only runs for hot water, as I have the thermostat shut off.

Last year I decided to build and outdoor wood boiler and pipe it into my existing boiler system, and through the house. I ended up builder the boiler in my garage, and decided to leave it in there without the insulation on it. So last year I had a 75 degree garage all winter , and a 75 degree house all winter for $250 all season, the price of the wood because I got it in log length and blocked/split it myself. The problem I had last year was having too much heat, I literally had to install 4 cast iron radiators in my basement to dump all the excess heat that I wasn't using.

This year I am using the same set-up, but I cut all of my own wood this year for free, well, minus bar and chain oil, mixed gas, gas for the truck, and my time. So I'm looking at a $100 heating bill this year. This is a picture of what I have currently stacked, 24 inch length, mostly un-split. It's all cherry and hard maple, which are my favorite to burn. I've got about 5 full chord stacked in the yard right now, which is about half of what I cut total. Halfway there...in two days. Gonna take a couple weeks then finish the rest up.

Image
Both taken at the same time, one is with the night time feature, which came out blurry, and the other is normal.
Image

I have a little idea for next year, that I think I'm going to do. Pretty set on it right now. That is to re-pour my driveway(it is concrete, but getting old) with hydronic heat lines through it. With this I could be dumping all of my excess heat, and never have to shovel my driveway again :mrgreen:

Any experience or thoughts with this?
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Re: Firewood

Postby Tiler_J » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:28 pm

I have never tried it, but my friends parents built a house and heated their front walk-way and steps. The report is that it works great, I don't know what they used to heat it though. If I can remember, I will ask my friend how they did it and how it is holding up.
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Re: Firewood

Postby Goldfish » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:38 pm

My aunt and uncle heat their house with a wood stove like that which pumps the heat in. It's definitely toasty in there in winter. They've got a non-attached garage (which they bought at a garage sale and moved) that the slab is heated by the stove as well. Knowing that, I think there would be enough heat to heat the driveway.
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Re: Firewood

Postby Eric Haynes » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:45 pm

Goldfish wrote:My aunt and uncle heat their house with a wood stove like that which pumps the heat in. It's definitely toasty in there in winter. They've got a non-attached garage (which they bought at a garage sale and moved) that the slab is heated by the stove as well. Knowing that, I think there would be enough heat to heat the driveway.


I know there is plenty of heat for it, but I have heard that without the constant heat, it will freeze up when a normal pad wouldn't. This is supposed to be due to the polystyrene insulation beneath the concrete, which is required by code. While the insulation stops the heat from going into the ground, it also stops the heat from the ground to rise up into the pad.

In reality, I don't see that as a problem, but the cost in propylene glycol, at $55 a gallon could off set my wallet more than I'd like. My boiler holds 350 gallons, and there would probably be another 30 in the lines. Right now I just run about 5% glycol through the whole system, which I don't really need because it runs 24/7, but was given to me for free.
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, "If I live, I will kill you. If I die, you are forgiven." Such is the rule of honor.
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Re: Firewood

Postby Goldfish » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:56 pm

You don't look like you're in the cities, and if they did check up on ya I bet they'd only check by the edges to see that the foam is there being they can't see under a concrete slab...
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Re: Firewood

Postby assateague » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:00 pm

Thank you for reminding me how far behind I am when it comes to firewood this year. Got a pile of wood just waiting to be cut and hauled, free for the taking. Mostly maple, but just haven't got to it yet. Dammit.
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Re: Firewood

Postby Eric Haynes » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:04 pm

Goldfish wrote:You don't look like you're in the cities, and if they did check up on ya I bet they'd only check by the edges to see that the foam is there being they can't see under a concrete slab...


I am in the city, a huge city of 10,000...lol

I never get a building permit for anything anyways, but you never know who is watching. They don't know about the wood boiler as it is anyways :mrgreen:

I think it would be fun waking up in the morning after a foot of snowfall and seeing a driveway that is bare concrete while all the neighbors are shoveling/snow blowing
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Re: Firewood

Postby Eric Haynes » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:06 pm

assateague wrote:Thank you for reminding me how far behind I am when it comes to firewood this year. Got a pile of wood just waiting to be cut and hauled, free for the taking. Mostly maple, but just haven't got to it yet. Dammit.


Sadly, I enjoy doing it most of the time. If there was one thing I don't like doing, is sharpening that damn chain about 20 times throughout falling and blocking :cry:
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, "If I live, I will kill you. If I die, you are forgiven." Such is the rule of honor.
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Re: Firewood

Postby assateague » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:09 pm

I haven't got to it yet mostly because it's been so hot. I enjoy splitting by hand, but when we go cut, it's usually a pain in the ass. When they timber land around here, they only take the pines, leaving the hardwood (and gum) piled up in heaps. Getting through that mess takes some doing, but after you get the hang of it it goes pretty quick. Worst part is cutting the gum only to throw it aside, but there's not much other way to get it separated. We tried a tractor and chains one year, but that just made a mess like you've never seen. :lol:
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Re: Firewood

Postby Eric Haynes » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:16 pm

assateague wrote:I haven't got to it yet mostly because it's been so hot. I enjoy splitting by hand, but when we go cut, it's usually a pain in the ass. When they timber land around here, they only take the pines, leaving the hardwood (and gum) piled up in heaps. Getting through that mess takes some doing, but after you get the hang of it it goes pretty quick. Worst part is cutting the gum only to throw it aside, but there's not much other way to get it separated. We tried a tractor and chains one year, but that just made a mess like you've never seen. :lol:


I'm not sure I could hang around too long splitting by hand. Soft maple isn't bad to hand split, but F that, 10 full chord is a little out of my league. I have my splitter "rigged." It's just a Huskee 28 ton from tractor supply, but the control normally in manual forward, then auto back. Father is an engineer and plays around with that stuff all the time, got me a control that goes auto forward, and back. All I do is pull the control forward and pick up the next piece. No sitting around waiting on controls.
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Re: Firewood

Postby Westie25 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:34 am

When you say gum, you talking about sweet gum?
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Re: Firewood

Postby capt1972 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:10 am

Westie25 wrote:When you say gum, you talking about sweet gum?

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Re: Firewood

Postby Westie25 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:11 am

It helps fight cavities.
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Re: Firewood

Postby Olly » Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:13 am

Up here in the U.P. heating your home totally with firewood is very very common. I know lots of people with outdoor heaters, if I ever lived in a climate that required it I'd do the same. If you have the back to collect the wood yourself you can heat your home for an 8 month winter for next to nothing, just requires the work.
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Re: Firewood

Postby assateague » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:28 am

Westie25 wrote:When you say gum, you talking about sweet gum?


Yep. That stuff doesn't put off heat for crap. Burns ok, but no heat. Lot of people around here like oak, but I'll take maple any day.
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Re: Firewood

Postby FlintRiverFowler » Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:21 am

doesnt it make a ton of soot too?
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Re: Firewood

Postby assateague » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:31 pm

Yes it does. You'd think something that burns as fast as it does (even without the heat) would burn sort of clean. But nope. They're officially useless all the way around.
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Re: Firewood

Postby Westie25 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:38 pm

assateague wrote:
Westie25 wrote:When you say gum, you talking about sweet gum?


Yep. That stuff doesn't put off heat for crap. Burns ok, but no heat. Lot of people around here like oak, but I'll take maple any day.


I've got several chunks of sweet gum about 3 foot in diameter I need to do something with.
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Re: Firewood

Postby assateague » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:09 pm

Keep one for a chopping block (you'll use it for more than you think, trust me). Then push the other ones over into the neighbor's yard.
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Re: Firewood

Postby 3legged_lab » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:27 pm

Eric Haynes wrote:
I know there is plenty of heat for it, but I have heard that without the constant heat, it will freeze up when a normal pad wouldn't. This is supposed to be due to the polystyrene insulation beneath the concrete, which is required by code. While the insulation stops the heat from going into the ground, it also stops the heat from the ground to rise up into the pad.

In reality, I don't see that as a problem, but the cost in propylene glycol, at $55 a gallon could off set my wallet more than I'd like. My boiler holds 350 gallons, and there would probably be another 30 in the lines. Right now I just run about 5% glycol through the whole system, which I don't really need because it runs 24/7, but was given to me for free.

Without the glycol you risk freezing up because you are above the frost line in the ground. I'm sure it varies in different areas, but I think around here they say its at about 24". If you bury your lines below the frost line they wont freeze, but they wont heat your driveway very well. Odds are (if you run your fire and circ pump 24/7) you could cut back on the glycol ratio and be fine, but if you do break a line you have two choices 1) shut off the circuit to the driveway, 2) start cutting up that new driveway.

There are several places here that use it keep snow off with great results. The town I live in sits on top of a huge geothermal hot spot, so it works basically the same as you plan on doing. A few years ago the city installed H/W pipes in all of the sidewalks down town as well as the cross walks. I think the entire college is heated with geo heat, pretty sure they been involved in developing some new technologies with it too.
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Re: Firewood

Postby assateague » Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:29 pm

3legged_lab wrote: The town I live in sits on top of a huge geothermal hot spot, so it works basically the same as you plan on doing.



People wouldn't be nearly so proud of it if they called it a "baby volcano".
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Re: Firewood

Postby Eric Haynes » Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:47 pm

3legged_lab wrote:
Eric Haynes wrote:
I know there is plenty of heat for it, but I have heard that without the constant heat, it will freeze up when a normal pad wouldn't. This is supposed to be due to the polystyrene insulation beneath the concrete, which is required by code. While the insulation stops the heat from going into the ground, it also stops the heat from the ground to rise up into the pad.

In reality, I don't see that as a problem, but the cost in propylene glycol, at $55 a gallon could off set my wallet more than I'd like. My boiler holds 350 gallons, and there would probably be another 30 in the lines. Right now I just run about 5% glycol through the whole system, which I don't really need because it runs 24/7, but was given to me for free.

Without the glycol you risk freezing up because you are above the frost line in the ground. I'm sure it varies in different areas, but I think around here they say its at about 24". If you bury your lines below the frost line they wont freeze, but they wont heat your driveway very well. Odds are (if you run your fire and circ pump 24/7) you could cut back on the glycol ratio and be fine, but if you do break a line you have two choices 1) shut off the circuit to the driveway, 2) start cutting up that new driveway.

There are several places here that use it keep snow off with great results. The town I live in sits on top of a huge geothermal hot spot, so it works basically the same as you plan on doing. A few years ago the city installed H/W pipes in all of the sidewalks down town as well as the cross walks. I think the entire college is heated with geo heat, pretty sure they been involved in developing some new technologies with it too.



Yeah, I would use it if I decided to go through with it, it's the only thing stopping me really. I do quite a few boiler systems every year, almost always use glycol just because.
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Re: Firewood

Postby 3legged_lab » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:39 pm

Assa could probably teach you how to make corn whiskey cheaper than 55/gallon. It wont freeze, correct?
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Re: Firewood

Postby 3legged_lab » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:51 pm

assateague wrote:
3legged_lab wrote: The town I live in sits on top of a huge geothermal hot spot, so it works basically the same as you plan on doing.



People wouldn't be nearly so proud of it if they called it a "baby volcano".

I think it would be considered more of a 'fault line' than a volcano. But we arent too far away from Crater Lake aka the former Mt Mazama.

This link has a pic of our mayor cooking an egg on the sidewalk in winter. http://ci.klamath-falls.or.us/departments/works/water/geothermal

Our old shop was in the old downtown industrial area where we had geo heat in the floor. When the pump worked, it was awesome. I could come in to work on a winter morning on a 10 degree day and the inside of the shop was still 78*, I'd get there first and open the door to cool it off inside. The best part about a hot slab concrete floor was a warm toilet to sit on in the morning.
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Re: Firewood

Postby Rooster » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:55 pm

3legged_lab wrote:
assateague wrote:
3legged_lab wrote: The town I live in sits on top of a huge geothermal hot spot, so it works basically the same as you plan on doing.



People wouldn't be nearly so proud of it if they called it a "baby volcano".

I think it would be considered more of a 'fault line' than a volcano. But we arent too far away from Crater Lake aka the former Mt Mazama.

This link has a pic of our mayor cooking an egg on the sidewalk in winter. http://ci.klamath-falls.or.us/departments/works/water/geothermal

Our old shop was in the old downtown industrial area where we had geo heat in the floor. When the pump worked, it was awesome. I could come in to work on a winter morning on a 10 degree day and the inside of the shop was still 78*, I'd get there first and open the door to cool it off inside. The best part about a hot slab concrete floor was a warm toilet to sit on in the morning.

That's the only way I would feel comfortable on a warm toilet. The only time the toilet is warm at my work is when someone beat you to it :lol:
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Re: Firewood

Postby assateague » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:01 pm

3legged_lab wrote:Assa could probably teach you how to make corn whiskey cheaper than 55/gallon. It wont freeze, correct?


Nope. And if you use all of the thirds, it'll have plenty of fusel oils in it to add a little viscosity. Bad part is the if I pipe bursts near the boiler, your house may very well explode. :lol:
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Re: Firewood

Postby aunt betty » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:26 pm

My firewood guy is a bit rippy.
He advertizes "cords" but sells face cords.
I will buy a cord. Get it in writing.
This year I will teach him.
Build a box with 4 sheets of osb.
128 cubic feet. Not 32 square feet of face.
He thinks I dont know. :mrgreen:
Will simply say, "fill it up".
Last edited by aunt betty on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I've heard that it's incredibly stupid to fuck around with a crazy man's head.
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Re: Firewood

Postby assateague » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:27 pm

I don't mind short cords near as much as I hate green wood sold as seasoned. Pisses me off.
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Re: Firewood

Postby aunt betty » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:31 pm

assateague wrote:I don't mind short cords near as much as I hate green wood sold as seasoned. Pisses me off.

True dat. Two suppliers.
One has wet, green that sits in the rain.

The other has a barn full of seasoned but is rippy on measuring.
If I drive north til i hit river...its all white oak but...50 miles.

I cut every piece of maple that hits the ground around here.
Some across street now.
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Re: Firewood

Postby flight control » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:46 pm

I need to get started on mine. Maybe this weekend.
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