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Older guns and steel shot
Posted:
Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:04 amby banknote
What's the deal with older shotguns and steel shot? Specifically, I have a 1942 Ithaca Model 37 20ga that I'm thinking of shooting steel with for close in ducks, pheasants and chukar in 4s or 5s. I also may soon have my hands on a 16ga m37 from 1952 and would really like to shoot ducks with it. Both are modified choke. I've shot maybe a box of steel 7s through the 20ga and see no sign of damage from that. I know a lot of steel shot has gone through my dad's m37 12ga that I think is from the 70s and it's fine. Will steel fuck up the older guns?
Re: Older guns and steel shot
Posted:
Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:05 amby DeadEye_Dan
Back when those guns were made, shotguns almost exclusively fired lead. I've been told they used a softer steel than what's used today-steel that's softer than the steel shot we use now.
Through a Mod choke, you probably won't see any damage when shooting smaller steel shot. You may (MAY) see some scoring or bulging of the bbl when trying to pass larger (anything bigger than 2s) steel pellets. As the pellet size increases, the shot has less ability to compress its way through the choke, leading to the potential issue.
I've shot 2s through my Model 11 Rem with a fixed IC and have seen no problems either.
I'd say running it through an IC you'd be pretty safe, through a full choke, you're almost certainly going to damage the bbl, and a Mod falls somewhere in between, with the potential for damage mostly determined by the shot size and the frequency steel shot is fired through it being the main factors.
Re: Older guns and steel shot
Posted:
Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:07 amby jarbo03
I would have no problem shooting #4 steel with those guns, stay away from larger shot though. I shoot #4 through my Sweet 16 A5, no problems, I opened the choke to LM to help out also.
Re: Older guns and steel shot
Posted:
Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:25 amby DeadEye_Dan
Jerry brings up a good point. A Mod 16 ga and a Mod 12 ga are different constrictions, but a No.2 is the same size no matter what.
I'd agree with Jerry and say that I'd avoid anything larger than 4s in the 16 & 20 ga's
Re: Older guns and steel shot
Posted:
Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:20 pmby banknote
Thanks guys. That's kinda what I figured, but I was getting some funny looks from some folks around here when I started talking shooting ducks with those guns.
Re: Older guns and steel shot
Posted:
Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:37 pmby realunlucky
Don't they make shot that's not lead and non toxic but is softer than steel and safe to shoot out of older guns?
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Re: Older guns and steel shot
Posted:
Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:41 pmby The Duck Hammer
Yea but its almost cheaper just to buy a new gun...
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Re: Older guns and steel shot
Posted:
Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:29 pmby DeadEye_Dan
Kent Tungsten Matrix is softer and is safe in the older guns, while still non toxic.
Re: Older guns and steel shot
Posted:
Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:25 amby R. Chapman
Yeah, I wouldn't be to concerned. Just don't shoot anything above 4 shot going no more than 13000-1400 FPS.
Re: Older guns and steel shot
Posted:
Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:30 amby rebelp74
DeadEye_Dan wrote:Kent Tungsten Matrix is softer and is safe in the older guns, while still non toxic.
Is it really? I always thought tungsten is harder.
Re: Older guns and steel shot
Posted:
Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:06 amby DeadEye_Dan
rebelp74 wrote:DeadEye_Dan wrote:Kent Tungsten Matrix is softer and is safe in the older guns, while still non toxic.
Is it really? I always thought tungsten is harder.
Matrix is a blend of Tungsten and Polymers, makes it soft.
I took a guy once and he was shooting some fancy assed British "bespoke" double. That's all he would shoot through it.
Re: Older guns and steel shot
Posted:
Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:57 amby jarbo03
DeadEye_Dan wrote:rebelp74 wrote:DeadEye_Dan wrote:Kent Tungsten Matrix is softer and is safe in the older guns, while still non toxic.
Is it really? I always thought tungsten is harder.
Matrix is a blend of Tungsten and Polymers, makes it soft.
I took a guy once and he was shooting some fancy assed British "bespoke" double. That's all he would shoot through it.
Yep. Kent TM is soft, along with bismuth, and Hevi-Shot Classic Doubles. If you reload Nice-Shot is an option.
Re: Older guns and steel shot
Posted:
Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:16 amby realunlucky
R. Chapman wrote:Yeah, I wouldn't be to concerned. Just don't shoot anything above 4 shot going no more than 13000-1400 FPS.
is this still hold true if the gun has a full choke?
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Re: Older guns and steel shot
Posted:
Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:25 pmby rebelp74
jarbo03 wrote:DeadEye_Dan wrote:rebelp74 wrote:DeadEye_Dan wrote:Kent Tungsten Matrix is softer and is safe in the older guns, while still non toxic.
Is it really? I always thought tungsten is harder.
Matrix is a blend of Tungsten and Polymers, makes it soft.
I took a guy once and he was shooting some fancy assed British "bespoke" double. That's all he would shoot through it.
Yep. Kent TM is soft, along with bismuth, and Hevi-Shot Classic Doubles. If you reload Nice-Shot is an option.
Good to know, thanks fellas.
Re: Older guns and steel shot
Posted:
Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:26 pmby Rick
When I went through my premium non-tox phase, TM was my clear pick of that litter - just not worth the price premium to me.
Re: Older guns and steel shot
Posted:
Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:30 pmby R. Chapman
realunlucky wrote:R. Chapman wrote:Yeah, I wouldn't be to concerned. Just don't shoot anything above 4 shot going no more than 13000-1400 FPS.
is this still hold true if the gun has a full choke?
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I would think it would, I haven't had a problem shooting 4s steel through old full choke guns but I didn't shoot loads greater than 1400 FPS.
Re: Older guns and steel shot
Posted:
Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:12 pmby banknote
The only factory steel I've been able to find for 16ga are 2s. I might have to give them a try.
Re: Older guns and steel shot
Posted:
Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:16 pmby rebelp74
banknote wrote:The only factory steel I've been able to find for 16ga are 2s. I might have to give them a try.
http://www.ammo-sale.com/shotshell.asp
Re: Older guns and steel shot
Posted:
Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:12 pmby banknote
Re: Older guns and steel shot
Posted:
Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:30 pmby assateague
I'm still pissed at that shitheel in Illinois who cancelled orders when he realized that he was selling #2 Xpert cases for $69. He claimed they were suddenly "out of stock" instead of saying he messed up. Pisses me off.
Re: Older guns and steel shot
Posted:
Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:47 pmby jarbo03
assateague wrote:I'm still pissed at that shitheel in Illinois who cancelled orders when he realized that he was selling #2 Xpert cases for $69. He claimed they were suddenly "out of stock" instead of saying he messed up. Pisses me off.
What a dickmunch!
Re: Older guns and steel shot
Posted:
Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:51 amby Tomkat
assateague wrote:I'm still pissed at that shitheel in Illinois who cancelled orders when he realized that he was selling #2 Xpert cases for $69. He claimed they were suddenly "out of stock" instead of saying he messed up. Pisses me off.
If you were really good, Dale in your avatar would wear a chiefs hat, too