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I don't understand why people use 5s and 6s on Pheasants and grouse!?!? A handicap trap load of 1 1/8oz of 7.5s going @ 1200-1290 fps kill upland birds fast and have a much better pattern than what 4s, 5s, and 6s will throw. So instead of wasting your money spending $15-$25 for a box, buy some trap loads as try them. Here's a few to consider:

Winchester AA SuperHandicap going @ 1290 FPS
Remington Nitro-27 going @ 1250 FPS
Federal Gold Medal going @ 1230 FPS
Federal Gold Medal Papers going @ 1200 FPS

Most of these you can get for under $9 at your local big store.

Less amount of pellets to bite on

rebelp74 wrote:Less amount of pellets to bite on

I use BBB. I don't want my pheasants getting away.

Eric Haynes wrote:

rebelp74 wrote:Less amount of pellets to bite on

I use BBB. I don't want my pheasants getting away.

I usually just use OO. Get good clean pass throughs.

NuffDaddy wrote:

Eric Haynes wrote:

rebelp74 wrote:Less amount of pellets to bite on

I use BBB. I don't want my pheasants getting away.

I usually just use OO. Get good clean pass throughs.

If you can't take their heads off with slugs, you have no business hunting them. But it is cheaper to just make cut shells with the ones rex metioned.

flight control wrote:

NuffDaddy wrote:

Eric Haynes wrote:

rebelp74 wrote:Less amount of pellets to bite on

I use BBB. I don't want my pheasants getting away.

I usually just use OO. Get good clean pass throughs.

If you can't take their heads off with slugs, you have no business hunting them. But it is cheaper to just make cut shells with the ones rex metioned.

I call third ringers

Rex is right, 7 1/2's are great for pheasant and if you roll your own, there is data out there for 1330 fps for 1 3/8 oz loads that absolutely paralyze ditch chickens.

RonE wrote:Rex is right, 7 1/2's are great for pheasant and if you roll your own, there is data out there for 1330 fps for 1 3/8 oz loads that absolutely paralyze ditch chickens.

And pellet guns can kill a deer...

1 1/8 oz #5s will kill any pheasant 7 5 will. With less damage to the meat and as said before, no pellets to bite. Then lets talk about the wind, whole nother story. In MT and IA where every pheasant seems to be dumb, any load will kill.

jarbo03 wrote:1 1/8 oz #5s will kill any pheasant 7 5 will. With less damage to the meat and as said before, no pellets to bite. Then lets talk about the wind, whole nother story. In MT and IA where every pheasant seems to be dumb, any load will kill.

Don't even go with that "wind throws the pattern around" horseshit. I've been able to bust 50 straights from the 27 yard-line when the wind was blowing 30 mph. Believe me, I didn't do any compensating bullshit, I shot them just like any other trap target on a perfect day. Another thing is hit a pheasant squarely with 1 3/8oz of 5s then hit one squarely with 1 1/8ox of 7.5s. That pheasant that was hit with the 5s will be torn up like you let your bloodhound eat at it. It'll be a little bit torn up with either load but those 7.5s won't damage the meat as much as as the 5s. I've shot a limited amount of pheasants but I have shot a good handful of grouse. The 7.5s fly clean through them just like 5s would. Another thing is the lesser your shot charge and speed your payload is traveling, the better is will pattern. It's an old, almost unknown fact, but all the big dog trap shooters used to shoot 1oz of 8s because it threw a better pattern from the 27 yard-line than 1 1/8 oz of 7.5s could. But then came along special handicap loads for the back fence. Every one went to those instead of sticking with a better patterning load and a lighter kicking load.

R. Chapman wrote:

jarbo03 wrote:1 1/8 oz #5s will kill any pheasant 7 5 will. With less damage to the meat and as said before, no pellets to bite. Then lets talk about the wind, whole nother story. In MT and IA where every pheasant seems to be dumb, any load will kill.

Don't even go with that "wind throws the pattern around" horseshit. I've been able to bust 50 straights from the 27 yard-line when the wind was blowing 30 mph. Believe me, I didn't do any compensating bullshit, I shot them just like any other trap target on a perfect day. Another thing is hit a pheasant squarely with 1 3/8oz of 5s then hit one squarely with 1 1/8ox of 7.5s. That pheasant that was hit with the 5s will be torn up like you let your bloodhound eat at it. It'll be a little bit torn up with either load but those 7.5s won't damage the meat as much as as the 5s. I've shot a limited amount of pheasants but I have shot a good handful of grouse. The 7.5s fly clean through them just like 5s would. Another thing is the lesser your shot charge and speed your payload is traveling, the better is will pattern. It's an old, almost unknown fact, but all the big dog trap shooters used to shoot 1oz of 8s because it threw a better pattern from the 27 yard-line than 1 1/8 oz of 7.5s could. But then came along special handicap loads for the back fence. Every one went to those instead of sticking with a better patterning load and a lighter kicking load.

I bet i shoot 30x the upland you do every year.

Wind blows patterns around, fact, unless of course you're
REX FUCKING CHAPMAN!!!

I'll run ballistics on a few loads tomorrow or Thursday and give you guys some actual data on this shit, but really, wind blows patterns, especially smaller shot

I've shot a shitload of pheasant and grouse, and chickens. Conparing trap to any kind of bird is nonsense, also worked at a gun club for years. There is no need for 1 3/8oz shot, I shoot 1 1/8oz for pheasant. Slower loads did pattern better in the days of shitty wads and components, my best patterning phez loads runs 1550 fps. Anyone who has patterned knows how far wind can drift your pattern with 7.5s.

I've shot a shitload of pheasant and grouse, and chickens. Conparing trap to any kind of bird is nonsense, also worked at a gun club for years. There is no need for 1 3/8oz shot, I shoot 1 1/8oz for pheasant. Slower loads did pattern better in the days of shitty wads and components, my best patterning phez loads runs 1550 fps. Anyone who has patterned knows how far wind can drift your pattern with 7.5s.

jehler wrote:I'll run ballistics on a few loads tomorrow or Thursday and give you guys some actual data on this shit, but really, wind blows patterns, especially smaller shot

It better be blowing over 100 mph to really notice a huge difference at 50 yards.

Eric Haynes wrote:

R. Chapman wrote:

jarbo03 wrote:1 1/8 oz #5s will kill any pheasant 7 5 will. With less damage to the meat and as said before, no pellets to bite. Then lets talk about the wind, whole nother story. In MT and IA where every pheasant seems to be dumb, any load will kill.

Don't even go with that "wind throws the pattern around" horseshit. I've been able to bust 50 straights from the 27 yard-line when the wind was blowing 30 mph. Believe me, I didn't do any compensating bullshit, I shot them just like any other trap target on a perfect day. Another thing is hit a pheasant squarely with 1 3/8oz of 5s then hit one squarely with 1 1/8ox of 7.5s. That pheasant that was hit with the 5s will be torn up like you let your bloodhound eat at it. It'll be a little bit torn up with either load but those 7.5s won't damage the meat as much as as the 5s. I've shot a limited amount of pheasants but I have shot a good handful of grouse. The 7.5s fly clean through them just like 5s would. Another thing is the lesser your shot charge and speed your payload is traveling, the better is will pattern. It's an old, almost unknown fact, but all the big dog trap shooters used to shoot 1oz of 8s because it threw a better pattern from the 27 yard-line than 1 1/8 oz of 7.5s could. But then came along special handicap loads for the back fence. Every one went to those instead of sticking with a better patterning load and a lighter kicking load.

I bet i shoot 30x the upland you do every year.

I bet you do to. I did some hunting over the weekend with some guys. They still can't figure out how I could hit a Hun going perpendicular to me at about 50 yards with handicrap loads.

R. Chapman wrote:

jehler wrote:I'll run ballistics on a few loads tomorrow or Thursday and give you guys some actual data on this shit, but really, wind blows patterns, especially smaller shot

It better be blowing over 100 mph to really notice a huge difference at 50 yards.

careful, your ignorance is showing

jehler wrote:

R. Chapman wrote:

jehler wrote:I'll run ballistics on a few loads tomorrow or Thursday and give you guys some actual data on this shit, but really, wind blows patterns, especially smaller shot

It better be blowing over 100 mph to really notice a huge difference at 50 yards.

careful, your ignorance is showing

Probably is a little bit. What I'm trying to get across is at any shots under normal hunting conditions (50 yards and under with lead), it better be blowing like hell. Personally, I've never compensated for wind shotgunning because its just one of those things that is mostly bullshit and that will screw up your shotgunning. Your mind knows where to put that barrel consciously and your hands will follow. It'll calculate all that in microseconds. It's better to to let your subconscious to do the work instead of consciously telling yourself that the bead needs to be X amount in front of the target but oh wait! I have a 20 mph NW wind so I need to actually have that bead right at his feet because that Hun is going down-hill. I notice a lot of people try to shoot a shotgun like its a damn rifle. Rifle shooting is scientific and mathematics, where shotgunning is an art and

John- This is what you posted when this discussion came up on DHC.

pm a guy on this site with the screen name toasty, he has written and sells a shotshell ballistics software, great source of info. I know that in a 40 knot wind my pattern of 2's with a 3' velocity of 1500 fps was pushed about 18"-2' off of poa

AKPirate wrote:John- This is what you posted when this discussion came up on DHC.

pm a guy on this site with the screen name toasty, he has written and sells a shotshell ballistics software, great source of info. I know that in a 40 knot wind my pattern of 2's with a 3' velocity of 1500 fps was pushed about 18"-2' off of poa

that's good info right there, but, that's with steel. Lead is denser so it is effected less but the smaller pellets (7.5) would be more affected than larger, can't give you precise data on the lead right now but can get it from software later

AKPirate wrote:John- This is what you posted when this discussion came up on DHC.

pm a guy on this site with the screen name toasty, he has written and sells a shotshell ballistics software, great source of info. I know that in a 40 knot wind my pattern of 2's with a 3' velocity of 1500 fps was pushed about 18"-2' off of poa

I noticed the same thing when I was shooting the board in my back yard. Was quite a surprise to me, and explains why I was missing a lot the few days this season with 30-50 MPH winds.

jehler wrote:

AKPirate wrote:John- This is what you posted when this discussion came up on DHC.

pm a guy on this site with the screen name toasty, he has written and sells a shotshell ballistics software, great source of info. I know that in a 40 knot wind my pattern of 2's with a 3' velocity of 1500 fps was pushed about 18"-2' off of poa

that's good info right there, but, that's with steel. Lead is denser so it is effected less but the smaller pellets (7.5) would be more affected than larger, can't give you precise data on the lead right now but can get it from software later

Where do you get your software from?

NuffDaddy wrote:

AKPirate wrote:John- This is what you posted when this discussion came up on DHC.

pm a guy on this site with the screen name toasty, he has written and sells a shotshell ballistics software, great source of info. I know that in a 40 knot wind my pattern of 2's with a 3' velocity of 1500 fps was pushed about 18"-2' off of poa

I noticed the same thing when I was shooting the board in my back yard. Was quite a surprise to me, and explains why I was missing a lot the few days this season with 30-50 MPH winds.

nuff, that load I have you with the lbc 43's, we load that in 1's and b's and always have them with us, in a high wind go bigger and choke it up to mod or IM and you'll have better luck

NuffDaddy wrote:

jehler wrote:

AKPirate wrote:John- This is what you posted when this discussion came up on DHC.

pm a guy on this site with the screen name toasty, he has written and sells a shotshell ballistics software, great source of info. I know that in a 40 knot wind my pattern of 2's with a 3' velocity of 1500 fps was pushed about 18"-2' off of poa

that's good info right there, but, that's with steel. Lead is denser so it is effected less but the smaller pellets (7.5) would be more affected than larger, can't give you precise data on the lead right now but can get it from software later

Where do you get your software from?

toasty, duh

Toasty's is kpy shotshell ballistics, think its sold at precision and bpi now. I also have the old lowreys program, that's the one that has windage

jehler wrote:

NuffDaddy wrote:

AKPirate wrote:John- This is what you posted when this discussion came up on DHC.

pm a guy on this site with the screen name toasty, he has written and sells a shotshell ballistics software, great source of info. I know that in a 40 knot wind my pattern of 2's with a 3' velocity of 1500 fps was pushed about 18"-2' off of poa

I noticed the same thing when I was shooting the board in my back yard. Was quite a surprise to me, and explains why I was missing a lot the few days this season with 30-50 MPH winds.

nuff, that load I have you with the lbc 43's, we load that in 1's and b's and always have them with us, in a high wind go bigger and choke it up to mod or IM and you'll have better luck

Thanks. I'll give that a try. Still have a box or 2 of 1s left over from early goose.

jehler wrote:Toasty's is kpy shotshell ballistics, think its sold at precision and bpi now. I also have the old lowreys program, that's the one that has windage

Thanks.

NuffDaddy wrote:

jehler wrote:

NuffDaddy wrote:

AKPirate wrote:John- This is what you posted when this discussion came up on DHC.

pm a guy on this site with the screen name toasty, he has written and sells a shotshell ballistics software, great source of info. I know that in a 40 knot wind my pattern of 2's with a 3' velocity of 1500 fps was pushed about 18"-2' off of poa

I noticed the same thing when I was shooting the board in my back yard. Was quite a surprise to me, and explains why I was missing a lot the few days this season with 30-50 MPH winds.

nuff, that load I have you with the lbc 43's, we load that in 1's and b's and always have them with us, in a high wind go bigger and choke it up to mod or IM and you'll have better luck

Thanks. I'll give that a try. Still have a box or 2 of 1s left over from early goose.

I go to 1s for ducks when it gets super windy. Used some #2s with RSI 88 last Sunday with good success in the wind also.

jarbo03 wrote:

NuffDaddy wrote:

jehler wrote:

NuffDaddy wrote:

AKPirate wrote:John- This is what you posted when this discussion came up on DHC.

pm a guy on this site with the screen name toasty, he has written and sells a shotshell ballistics software, great source of info. I know that in a 40 knot wind my pattern of 2's with a 3' velocity of 1500 fps was pushed about 18"-2' off of poa

I noticed the same thing when I was shooting the board in my back yard. Was quite a surprise to me, and explains why I was missing a lot the few days this season with 30-50 MPH winds.

nuff, that load I have you with the lbc 43's, we load that in 1's and b's and always have them with us, in a high wind go bigger and choke it up to mod or IM and you'll have better luck

Thanks. I'll give that a try. Still have a box or 2 of 1s left over from early goose.

I go to 1s for ducks when it gets super windy. Used some #2s with RSI 88 last Sunday with good success in the wind also.

I've just been shooting 3s all season. I'll give the 1s a shot next time we get some wind.