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Ain't that the truth. The rest of the pigeons in the shop don't have a clue how lucky they were, not to be the "chosen one". Although he never did kill it.

Got a "box" made from leftover chicken wire, with a pull-open top. That's gonna wait a week or so, while we keep working on whoa. He's got it down pretty good inside, and it's time to introduce some distractions from time to time, I think. He gets bored quickly. Some more gunfire this week, just for fun, and keep working on OB, is the plan. I try to take it one day at a time, and only plan out one week ahead- keeps me from getting too "antsy", anxious to get on to what I would otherwise have planned a month from now. Which is just a recipe for frustration and disappointment.

assateague wrote::lol: Ain't that the truth. The rest of the pigeons in the shop don't have a clue how lucky they were, not to be the "chosen one". Although he never did kill it.

Got a "box" made from leftover chicken wire, with a pull-open top. That's gonna wait a week or so, while we keep working on whoa. He's got it down pretty good inside, and it's time to introduce some distractions from time to time, I think. He gets bored quickly. Some more gunfire this week, just for fun, and keep working on OB, is the plan. I try to take it one week at a time, and only plan out one week ahead- keeps me from getting too "antsy", anxious to get on to what I would otherwise have planned a month from now. Which is just a recipe for frustration and disappointment.

fun ain't it??

assateague wrote:Got a "box" made from leftover chicken wire, with a pull-open top.

I used to just cover birds with a wire cage without a bottom and kick it over so they could flush during the early stages before we'd move on to other types of plants. But here's one of the slickest tricks I've picked up on the net:


Doesn't look like much and isn't, which is the great beauty of it. Just a couple yards of decoy cord sewn to the toe of a dark colored baby sock on one end and tied to a length of bright flagging on the other. But it will do this:


No need for bulky cages, because the hooded pigeon isn't moving until you pull the hood off and let him see the sky. So you can carry a pocket full of setups around with a sack of pigeons to plant and pocket them again as you move around without having to go back and pick up cages. Flagged end can be hung on high grass, so you can see where your plants are, but Pup won't.

Rick, that's awesome. I believe I will retire the chicken wire box before it's ever even left the shop. Do the birds flush immediately when you pull the hood?

That pigeon looks like he's headed to the gallows.

From here on out, they're in the clear. Unless it's an incidental death, off course. Just going to be used for whoa and steady.

assateague wrote:Do the birds flush immediately when you pull the hood?

Some may require a step towards them, but unlike ground loving quail, pheasants and so forth, most will fly as soon as they see sky, which can be an issue when free planting pigeons for more advanced work, but we can cross that bridge when you get there. Vee have ways...

3legged_lab wrote:That pigeon looks like he's headed to the gallows.

Naw, just hanging out in Abu Ghraib.

Add a little water to that sock and they'll tell you all you want to know.

Rick, when you get tired of me picking your brain, let me know. (I told the breeder the same thing)

When starting out planting the pigeons, should I make them visible, or stick to high grass? I have both, and know that Dutch needs to use his nose not his eyes, ultimately, but didn't know if I should start out with something visible/slightly visible for him. If high grass, should I drag the dead one to the spot before bringing him out?

Thanks Rick!

Sweet little training trick Rick

I'd try some semi thick grass to start Assa. If he doesn't seem to pick them up real well, then move them to where he can see them...then back to the thick once he gets the hang of it. That's what id do.

I think you'll find it easiest to steady him on birds he can't see and isn't as tempted to run in on. Also don't want him getting it in his head that he should see them and just use scent to lead him to where he can. Starting out, I'd want to bring him into his birds crosswind of their downwind sides, so he'll hit strong scent and hopefully point on his own by instinct. Don't panic, or even be discouraged, if he doesn't. You'll be able to see by his body language when he strikes scent, and I'd want him to point then and there and whoa/checkcord him if he tries to move in on a training bird. Later on, wild birds will show him their own penalty for creeping and crowding, but most planted birds can't, which tends to encourage it if you don't apply the brake.

Lots of ways to do this stuff, that would just be mine.

Rick wrote:I think you'll find it easiest to steady him on birds he can't see and isn't as tempted to run in on. Also don't want him getting it in his head that he should see them and just use scent to lead him to where he can. Starting out, I'd want to bring him into his birds crosswind of their downwind sides, so he'll hit strong scent and hopefully point on his own by instinct. Don't panic, or even be discouraged, if he doesn't. You'll be able to see by his body language when he strikes scent, and I'd want him to point then and there and whoa/checkcord him if he tries to move in on a training bird. Later on, wild birds will show him their own penalty for creeping and crowding, but most planted birds can't, which tends to encourage it if you don't apply the brake.

Lots of ways to do this stuff, that would just be mine.

Agreed, that is how I work mine.

Here's some whoa training, which takes place in the dry, not raining like a banshee outdoors. You work with what you got, but he's starting to get it. Hopefully not just in time for him to become a teenager and decide to ignore everything I say. He still doesn't like to release very easy, which I guess is a much better problem to have than him not whoa-ing very easily.

assateague wrote:Here's some whoa training, which takes place in the dry, not raining like a banshee outdoors. You work with what you got, but he's starting to get it. Hopefully not just in time for him to become a teenager and decide to ignore everything I say. He still doesn't like to release very easy, which I guess is a much better problem to have than him not whoa-ing very easily.

good stuff. Gotta love those little baby steps...like when your own kid take its first step or says its first word

Good stuff Jimbo

Fwiw, I quit playing with wings and strings after my first pointing pup back in the '70s. Don't see anything good coming of it, beyond getting to see Pup point a wing on a string, and you may be encouraging pup to want to get close and sight point.

I teach pointing pups "whoa" exactly as I teach retriever pups "sit" before eating, going outside and other little everyday rewards. For us, it's simply an OB command that can also useful in steadying. A lot of folks who teach it won't use "whoa" around birds at all, but I use it in lieu of a checkcord, with birds being just another distraction our OB conditioning should be strong enough to overcome.

Lots of way to train 'em...

I'm running into a sitting problem. He's never really been taught "sit", just does it. but he dies it when "whoaing" for more than about 3 seconds. He'll just slowly ease his butt down. I lift it back up, and tell him "whoa", and try to hold it there, but then the little bastard just sits in my hand. Suggestions?

assateague wrote:I'm running into a sitting problem. He's never really been taught "sit", just does it. but he dies it when "whoaing" for more than about 3 seconds. He'll just slowly ease his butt down. I lift it back up, and tell him "whoa", and try to hold it there, but then the little bastard just sits in my hand. Suggestions?

you didn't force fetch him did you???

Cadee use to do something similar. When I'd work on sit, she'd sit then lay down. Not always. Just occasionally. I'd just move on to something else or call it. It was like she knew she was supposed to follow my order, and followed it, but appeared disinterested at the same time.

Seemed like though if I could keep the drill exciting for her, moving along alittle quicker, her interest in the drill would peak again.

Not sure if that's something you ca apply to your training but kinda helped with my mutt

assateague wrote:I'm running into a sitting problem. He's never really been taught "sit", just does it. but he dies it when "whoaing" for more than about 3 seconds. He'll just slowly ease his butt down. I lift it back up, and tell him "whoa", and try to hold it there, but then the little bastard just sits in my hand. Suggestions?

I've zip experience with that, but would think your persistence at not letting him will win out.

Or you could strap an e-collar to his ass...

Is it necessarily a bad thing?

I wouldn't want mine doing it. Might also try shorter "whoas" for a while to break the habit. But you'd have to be sure to release before he starts to sit, so he doesn't decide sitting will get him released.

I've never seen a problem from using a wing, but it is more for owners than the dogs. I used to teach whoa, do it 2 or 3 tines and quit. When that age I would occasionally tell them to get it and let them catch the wing. But they have to do everything right and be released before getting it. Keep everything short, let him be a crazy puppy for a while, he already knows how to point and hunt.

Rick wrote:I wouldn't want mine doing it. Might also try shorter "whoas" for a while to break the habit. But you'd have to be sure to release before he starts to sit, so he doesn't decide sitting will get him released.

dang this is what I tried to say. Outdone by the pro!

Rick wrote:I wouldn't want mine doing it. Might also try shorter "whoas" for a while to break the habit. But you'd have to be sure to release before he starts to sit, so he doesn't decide sitting will get him released.

He doesn't do it inside. Just when outside. He gets all the whoa practice he can handle with all the chickens in the yard. I fear I've created a bad habit, by doing exactly what you said- releasing him to sniff out the chickens in the overgrown garden (where he gets to go poop, so I don't have to pick it up from the yard) when he sits. I'll stop that, and pick him back up instead.

When the animals meet at night to discuss their days, he's probably telling them you're a quick study whose training is coming along nicely.

Please know mine do it to me, too. The most nagging problem I had with the coyote was his acting an ass when strangers visited our home. (Visiting friends were soon recognized as our training accomplices.) Naturally, the most expedient course with people we didn't know well enough to use as teaching tools was to kennel the pup until he'd settle down. And I'm ashamed and embarrassed to say how long it took me realize I was being played. When the coyote was a wee one, I'd leave a bone in his house crate to help make "kennel" a good thing, and the little rip learned that acting up with unfamiliar visitors would win him time with his bone.

Here's some movies from tonight. This was just a fun night. Perhaps wrong, perhaps not, but I want to keep him excited, and get him chances to use his nose as much as possible. I cut the garden to get ready to till for cabbage and broccoli, and left a bunch of "hedgerows", then planted two pigeons in them. Rick, I tried the hood approach, but they wouldn't keep them on. Shook like hell, and rubbed on the ground until the hood came off. So I said the heck with it, and just planted them anyway. They pretty much stayed close to where I put them.

The videos make it look far quicker than it was, but I didn't think anybody wanted to see 5 minutes of the dog running the garden every time. He stayed in the tall stuff, as if he knew that's where he was supposed to be looking, and did a good job of zig-zagging through the stuff, at least appearing to use his nose. Another plus is that both birds were delivered (approximately) to me alive, and are back in the coop, no less for the wear. He holds onto things like a sonofabitch, but I guess it's soft enough not to kill things. Could've fooled me.

This was the first bird he found:




And here's where he finally found pigeon 2. It took quite a while, and I was starting to think he wasn't going to, but he did. The garden has a varmint fence all around it, so I just let him run and run. I was going to make sure he found something before he gave up, but he eventually did his job.




But the bird got away, leading him on a chase yet again. He's persistent, though. I blame the break in the videos on my wife, who was filming. When the bird got away briefly, she felt the need to turn the camera off, apparently not having faith in the fact that he'd get it right back, and not wanting to embarrass Dutch.

He did get it, and bring it back to me. Sort of.





Overall, it was a fun night. He wore himself slap out running through the brush. Like I said, the videos make it look quick, but he was running through that stuff with all he had, back and forth, for a good 15 minutes. A couple times he went within 2 feet of the bird, and didn't pick up on it. I was a little worried, but didn't try to "manage" it, and just let him do his thing. He eventually found them both, and I'll call that good for now. I'll admit too, that it was exciting to see him finally catch wind of one, and work his way closer and closer. The tail wagging cracks me up, too.

Any advice, as always, is appreciated.