WaterfowlForum.Net

So Grady has a turkey wing. How should he be interacting with it? I don't want him to have a hard mouth and fuck up all the meat. I've got 2 more wings for him now. When should I stop giving him wings??

Southern_Pistol wrote:So Grady has a turkey wing. How should he be interacting with it? I don't want him to have a hard mouth and fuck up all the meat. I've got 2 more wings for him now. When should I stop giving him wings??

It should be used to encourage the use of his nose and to get him used to having "dead" in his mouth. Don't let him play with it like a toy, wings never last long anyway. I would say that wings are normally just a short stepping stone until you introduce live birds or full sized ducks. I used duck wings only until I started OB with my dog. So maybe from 2 months to about 4 months old.

WIngs are for the owner's amusement and do Pup no good at all. If you've been amused, stop now before habits you'll have to undo become more deeply ingrained.

Found myself rereading that in what I imagine copterdoc's voice. But it's true.

Rick wrote:WIngs are for the owner's amusement and do Pup no good at all. If you've been amused, stop now before habits you'll have to undo become more deeply ingrained.

I got to agree. I did get a ton of amusement from the wing. But looking back I questioned the value of those little exercises

Rick wrote:WIngs are for the owner's amusement and do Pup no good at all. If you've been amused, stop now before habits you'll have to undo become more deeply ingrained.

That's the first time I've ever heard anyone say that. Interesting, why do you think this? Not trolling just genuinely interested.

When I gave my (young) pup wings to retrieve I thought it was good practice for him and it got him excited about ducks vs just retrieving, later when we moved to full ducks he was already used to the smell and feel of duck feathers in his mouth.

Olly wrote:

Rick wrote:WIngs are for the owner's amusement and do Pup no good at all. If you've been amused, stop now before habits you'll have to undo become more deeply ingrained.

That's the first time I've ever heard anyone say that. Interesting, why do you think this? Not trolling just genuinely interested.

When I gave my (young) pup wings to retrieve I thought it was good practice for him and it got him excited about ducks vs just retrieving, later when we moved to full ducks he was already used to the smell and feel of duck feathers in his mouth.

That's exactly as I've thought of it too. Interesting.

allways let them play with wings some to get birdy as the old timers say .my pups are in a sock. now his go-to toy .I think a bird dog needs to to have that smell drilled into his head ,just me

Unless they're brand, new fresh cut or frozen, wings are rotting or rotted carrion, which is something you'll later want to discourage Pup from picking up. And if they are fresh or fresh frozen, they're still going to smell more like something Pup's instincts tell him is good to eat than a whole fresh shot bird. Plus a wing's configuration invites chewing, even if Pup doesn't get a taste of it's meaty stump, which, of course, he most likely will given much time with it. So if Pup does make a wing = bird association, he'll be learning that birds are something he wants to munch - which is something you'll have to break to avoid hard-mouth.

Much better, I think, to awaken the bird in the dog with a whole, too big to really crunch bird that smells and feels like a bird and isn't leaking anything tasty. Then, once he's shown he likes birds, dead or incapacitated as well as alive and flapping, forget about them, too, until good mouth and retrieving habits have been deeply ingrained with bumpers. (Pup most certainly won't forget he likes birds in the meantime.)

Rick wrote:Found myself rereading that in what I imagine copterdoc's voice

*shudders*

I have never used "wings" to try to get a dog "birdy". Usually teach them obedience, and retrieving at an early age and refine the retrieving until force fetch and then introduce the dog to birds. Use a pigeon with a clipped wing or a shackled duck. It is sometimes hard to find smaller ducks, you don't need a big old fat ten pound barnyard beast of a duck with his legs tied and wings clipped to train a young dog. This is where last years teal and woodies that have been in the freezer come in handy but keep in mind that once frozen, a duck goes away fast. Usually only good for one days training whereas fresh shot birds kept in a refrigerator are good for up to three or four days training. I will admit that a little puppy before it goes home with its new owners does look cute carrying around a duck or pigeon wing....helps sell puppies too. (look how birdy these pups are)

I don't really keep the wing so much as feathers of the wing .put em in an old sock and let him play with it .like I say his goto toy .I have seen some videos of dogs that are trained by pros and must say very impressive .I do not need a dog like that . he needs to know fetch,back ,stop, over by hand command ,kennel,stay ,hold. if all this is locked in and understood add a few hunts just to work and keep it fun I have a dog who can be driven by hand to a bird and will hold till sent stop and hide if needed and will love to go hunting . good times for all

ea oneal wrote:I don't really keep the wing so much as feathers of the wing .put em in an old sock and let him play with it .like I say his goto toy .I have seen some videos of dogs that are trained by pros and must say very impressive .I do not need a dog like that . he needs to know fetch,back ,stop, over by hand command ,kennel,stay ,hold. if all this is locked in and understood add a few hunts just to work and keep it fun I have a dog who can be driven by hand to a bird and will hold till sent stop and hide if needed and will love to go hunting . good times for all

Sounds like my kind of dog.

The pro that got me started with Atlas had me use wings to increase birdiness and practice nose work. He was an upland guy.
He would give me a few fresh pheasant wings and I would freeze all but one. The fresh wing got attached to the canvas bumper (electrical tape works really well) the bumper Atlas would go in his crate (located where he could see the refrigerator) this bumper had a 6 foot rope tied to it.
Next Atlas got tied to the couch where he could see the refrigerator where his "bird" lived. I would then make a huge production of getting the bird out of the refrigerator and walk past him outside where he could not see me.
Once out side I would drag the bird in a small (2 foot) circle for 2 minutes. Then I would drag it through the yard. We started at 25 and added 5 yards a week.
I would then get the dog, leash him, and walk him to the 2 foot circle. I would sit him and when I got a good air tell him "find the bird". He had to use his nose and find it. I would always drag it somewhere different and he would follow the scent trail right to the bird and bring it back.
We started this at about 4 1/2 months old. Seemed to work great he has found birds in some deep stuff without seeing the fall. We would use the bird 4-5 days and replace the wing. The wing was only I refrigerated for about 5 -10 minutes a time and never got nasty. I might take a special wife/family/husband to put up with a slower covered wing in a ziplock bag in the fridge. He also ended up extremely birdy.

Oh and do tuck the fleshy stump under the wing and tape it down I reduce temptation.

HighDesertDuck wrote:The pro that got me started with Atlas had me use wings to increase birdiness and practice nose work. He was an upland guy.
He would give me a few fresh pheasant wings and I would freeze all but one. The fresh wing got attached to the canvas bumper (electrical tape works really well) the bumper Atlas would go in his crate (located where he could see the refrigerator) this bumper had a 6 foot rope tied to it.
Next Atlas got tied to the couch where he could see the refrigerator where his "bird" lived. I would then make a huge production of getting the bird out of the refrigerator and walk past him outside where he could not see me.
Once out side I would drag the bird in a small (2 foot) circle for 2 minutes. Then I would drag it through the yard. We started at 25 and added 5 yards a week.
I would then get the dog, leash him, and walk him to the 2 foot circle. I would sit him and when I got a good air tell him "find the bird". He had to use his nose and find it. I would always drag it somewhere different and he would follow the scent trail right to the bird and bring it back.
We started this at about 4 1/2 months old. Seemed to work great he has found birds in some deep stuff without seeing the fall. We would use the bird 4-5 days and replace the wing. The wing was only I refrigerated for about 5 -10 minutes a time and never got nasty. I might take a special wife/family/husband to put up with a slower covered wing in a ziplock bag in the fridge. He also ended up extremely birdy.

Oh and do tuck the fleshy stump under the wing and tape it down I reduce temptation.

I did this pretty much the exact same way.
Started after I figured out the dog was hunting dummies by sight.
"Taught him he had a nose".
Great post highdesertduck (HDD) !

...and practice nose work.

My ex- was into AKC tracking at a time when we owned four dogs: an English setter, a Chesapeake, a beagle and a Westhighland white terrier. And I could lay a quarter mile TD track just by walking in rubber boots without using a drag (except a plain bumper in their very early training to associate my own track with it), leave a plain bumper at track's end, wait the required half-hour to hour before putting a dog on the track, and every one of those dogs became aces at the game for the love of finding that bumper and getting a retrieve. No thought-by-humans-to-be "bird scent" required.

Yep. Except for maybe a dog with low drive, most work with wings is for the owner. Not saying it hurts anything, but not a necessity IMO.

It's refreshing to see this being said. My breeder would throw a wing in the whelping pen and let the whole litter fight over it. This ingrained some drive, I suppose, but then I ended up with a young pup who thought birds were for competing over. He thinks bumpers are for retrieving, birds are for keep-away. I'm about to begin the process of unteaching that. Pretty sure I'll essentially be revisiting FF with birds instead of bumpers to do it.