need help

[Fowlplay]

posted on dhc, might get some different help here.

dog is 3yr old lab. force fetched. dog does decent in front yard up to 100 yard retrieves. the problem he and i have is that when he does not see the bird he wont take a line some of the time. he look turn his head and wont line up. some days i can heel him drop 5 bumpers heel him away to 100 yards send him and he does fine. other time he will do okay till the last dummy, then i send him and he takes some cockeyed post pattern no where near the bird.

upon entering different environments, it seems if he forgets how to be handled. he will run cockeyed lines if he takes any at all, and will also stare as if he knows where a bird is and no matter which way i line him up he still runs to where he thinks something is.

last season was his first season and he made some impressive retrieves, open water he does great but if i need to send him to bird on the edge of the lake that he didnt see, im screwed.

i know his confidence level is down, cus i come down on him hard when he does this stupid crap, only cus i believe he knows better. dont know if it has anything to do with it.

basically what im getting at is I JUST WANT THE DOG TO TAKE A LINE

thanks guys

[Westie25]

Try more drill work. Play baseball. Pile work. Hammer it home.

[Flightstopper]

I'd say back to basics, start small. Pick one open field with a stump or as Westie had suggested to me white buckets to use to mark the pile. Keep one bumper on you to start. Start very short retrieves and slowy build day after day same spot. Before you send him on first retrieve mark the pile by throwing the bumper to the pile. Sounds like its just a confidence issue that will fix itself as he learns to trust you in your direction. Start with short retrieves every day to set him up for success and slowly drag it out longer over time as the dog will dictate. Sorry I know this is not a very clear train of thought keeping up with the conversation in the room at the same time good luck to you take the advice or leave it as it fits you

[Flightstopper]

Oh yeah keep it fun for him with the occasional fun bumper. This can get boron for both of you from what I've experienced. I went through the same with my pup recently when he wouldn't even want to release on first command. Confused and no confidence.

[jarbo03]

Some good advice, all about confidence. I neef to do the same with Taz, have let a lot of retrieving drills slip away.
On the other hand, he was a stud chasing upland birds in MT.
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[Fowlplay]

thanks guys, he will fetch a pile at 100 yards in my front yard but it sems like he wont in different scenarios, should i train in some new places?

[jarbo03]

Absolutely, keep it exciting and different.

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[Fowlplay]

thanks

[jarbo03]

Let us know how things go. Dogs are like people, doing the same thing all the time, they will start going through the motions, challenge them at all times.

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[Olly]

It's easy to get lazy and train in the back yard. For about every 5 sessions I do in the back yard I like to do another somewhere else.

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[Westie25]

When you get done with drills throw him a happy. Get him all excited and just throw the bumper. Keep it fun. When he does right, tell him. Get excited. Be verbal. "Atta dog" "atta boy" "you bad SOB look at you go" atta boy that's what I wanted"

[Westie25]

It's easy to get lazy and train in the back yard. For about every 5 sessions I do in the back yard I like to do another somewhere else.

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We do the same. Monday thru Thursday at the kennels. Then Saturday and Sunday we go to a big park that's several hundred acres with multiple lakes. Unless its test season, then we're liable to be anywhere.

[Westie25]

Also, there is no one way to train a dog. It's up to you to learn what that dog reacts to. For example, my dog hates the e collar. She even so much as gets nicked with it and she shuts down. But responds well to a heeling stick and verbal commands. Zeke, for example, can't be hurt. The collar makes him focus even more.

[Olly]

My dog doesn't respond well to the collar either, to much and he will shut down. It's a good tool I use but have to use it sparsely. He responds better to simple praise and stern verbal corrections.

[Fowlplay]

things went well today. i worked him in a different part of the property and was very pleased and kept it positive. he over ran a few bumpers(doing ladder drills) but it seemed like he was getting the hang of it. far from perfect but its a start.

[Matt Duncan]

My advice.. GET ON A PROGRAM. Do you want him to run blinds or stumble around until he happens to find a bird? When "teaching" <---(KEY WORD) him the tools he needs to run blinds one of the most confusing things you can do to the dog is keep moving around day to day. Find a soccer field or something similar that you haven't trained in and dedicate that place to pile work, T, TT and when you are done with your yard program you are done with that field. Make sure you find a field thats going to be large enough to really stretch him out as time progresses. Like 150-200yds long and 75-100yds wide. Based on the fact that you said he is FF'd and CC'd. Next is Collar fetch, Force to pile, Single T, Double T, Water Force, Water T, and Swim by. Once those are done you can focus on Lining Drills at different locations. Along with Wagon Wheels, Sight Blinds, 3 legged pattern blinds and some of the other lining drills folks use. Fowl Dawgs would be a good program to get on and is inexpensive as is Duck Dog Basics 1 and 2 with Chris Akin. For the first timer or one without a ton of experience the quickest and most efficient way to the finish line would be to use a proven program and follow it to the T. Without a program or regular experienced help you will be beating your head against the wall for a long time with mediocre results. Gotta give the dog the tools it needs to run blinds and expecting him to perform without being given these tools is simply unfair to him. When you say you come down hard on him because "he knows better" is not accurate. He's a retriever, he likes birds and wants to please you. If he knew and was conditioned to do what he was supposed to do he would most likely be doing it. If he has an attitude issue it's because you have given it to him. Attitude is everything. Not to be harsh but more often than not folks need not point the finger at the dog they need to take a look in the mirror. Just imagine.. I'll give you a gun and no shells.. Now go shoot ducks. Make sense?

[Bootlipkiller]

My advice.. GET ON A PROGRAM. Do you want him to run blinds or stumble around until he happens to find a bird? When "teaching" <---(KEY WORD) him the tools he needs to run blinds one of the most confusing things you can do to the dog is keep moving around day to day. Find a soccer field or something similar that you haven't trained in and dedicate that place to pile work, T, TT and when you are done with your yard program you are done with that field. Make sure you find a field thats going to be large enough to really stretch him out as time progresses. Like 150-200yds long and 75-100yds wide. Based on the fact that you said he is FF'd and CC'd. Next is Collar fetch, Force to pile, Single T, Double T, Water Force, Water T, and Swim by. Once those are done you can focus on Lining Drills at different locations. Along with Wagon Wheels, Sight Blinds, 3 legged pattern blinds and some of the other lining drills folks use. Fowl Dawgs would be a good program to get on and is inexpensive as is Duck Dog Basics 1 and 2 with Chris Akin. For the first timer or one without a ton of experience the quickest and most efficient way to the finish line would be to use a proven program and follow it to the T. Without a program or regular experienced help you will be beating your head against the wall for a long time with mediocre results. Gotta give the dog the tools it needs to run blinds and expecting him to perform without being given these tools is simply unfair to him. When you say you come down hard on him because "he knows better" is not accurate. He's a retriever, he likes birds and wants to please you. If he knew and was conditioned to do what he was supposed to do he would most likely be doing it. If he has an attitude issue it's because you have given it to him. Attitude is everything. Not to be harsh but more often than not folks need not point the finger at the dog they need to take a look in the mirror. Just imagine.. I'll give you a gun and no shells.. Now go shoot ducks. Make sense?

Wow!!!!!!

[obxbufflehead]

My advice.. GET ON A PROGRAM. Do you want him to run blinds or stumble around until he happens to find a bird? When "teaching" <---(KEY WORD) him the tools he needs to run blinds one of the most confusing things you can do to the dog is keep moving around day to day. Find a soccer field or something similar that you haven't trained in and dedicate that place to pile work, T, TT and when you are done with your yard program you are done with that field. Make sure you find a field thats going to be large enough to really stretch him out as time progresses. Like 150-200yds long and 75-100yds wide. Based on the fact that you said he is FF'd and CC'd. Next is Collar fetch, Force to pile, Single T, Double T, Water Force, Water T, and Swim by. Once those are done you can focus on Lining Drills at different locations. Along with Wagon Wheels, Sight Blinds, 3 legged pattern blinds and some of the other lining drills folks use. Fowl Dawgs would be a good program to get on and is inexpensive as is Duck Dog Basics 1 and 2 with Chris Akin. For the first timer or one without a ton of experience the quickest and most efficient way to the finish line would be to use a proven program and follow it to the T. Without a program or regular experienced help you will be beating your head against the wall for a long time with mediocre results. Gotta give the dog the tools it needs to run blinds and expecting him to perform without being given these tools is simply unfair to him. When you say you come down hard on him because "he knows better" is not accurate. He's a retriever, he likes birds and wants to please you. If he knew and was conditioned to do what he was supposed to do he would most likely be doing it. If he has an attitude issue it's because you have given it to him. Attitude is everything. Not to be harsh but more often than not folks need not point the finger at the dog they need to take a look in the mirror. Just imagine.. I'll give you a gun and no shells.. Now go shoot ducks. Make sense?

Wow!!!!!!

My thoughts exactly

[Fowlplay]

My advice.. GET ON A PROGRAM. Do you want him to run blinds or stumble around until he happens to find a bird? When "teaching" <---(KEY WORD) him the tools he needs to run blinds one of the most confusing things you can do to the dog is keep moving around day to day. Find a soccer field or something similar that you haven't trained in and dedicate that place to pile work, T, TT and when you are done with your yard program you are done with that field. Make sure you find a field thats going to be large enough to really stretch him out as time progresses. Like 150-200yds long and 75-100yds wide. Based on the fact that you said he is FF'd and CC'd. Next is Collar fetch, Force to pile, Single T, Double T, Water Force, Water T, and Swim by. Once those are done you can focus on Lining Drills at different locations. Along with Wagon Wheels, Sight Blinds, 3 legged pattern blinds and some of the other lining drills folks use. Fowl Dawgs would be a good program to get on and is inexpensive as is Duck Dog Basics 1 and 2 with Chris Akin. For the first timer or one without a ton of experience the quickest and most efficient way to the finish line would be to use a proven program and follow it to the T. Without a program or regular experienced help you will be beating your head against the wall for a long time with mediocre results. Gotta give the dog the tools it needs to run blinds and expecting him to perform without being given these tools is simply unfair to him. When you say you come down hard on him because "he knows better" is not accurate. He's a retriever, he likes birds and wants to please you. If he knew and was conditioned to do what he was supposed to do he would most likely be doing it. If he has an attitude issue it's because you have given it to him. Attitude is everything. Not to be harsh but more often than not folks need not point the finger at the dog they need to take a look in the mirror. Just imagine.. I'll give you a gun and no shells.. Now go shoot ducks. Make sense?

10-4 thanks

[Fowlplay]

and for the record, the only time i get on him is when he does the same retrieve 4 times in a row flawlessly, then the 5th time he decides he would rather go the other way. fwiw