7.5s kill shit deader than hammer...

[NuffDaddy]

Ain't going to matter, that oldsmobile is fucked either way...

It does matter, that's the whole point of the argument. You clearly don't see that there is a difference.

He is seeing it as once you reach the minimum required to kill, they're all the same after that. Which simply isn't true. And for the record, I don't believe a 7.5 meats that minimum for wild pheasants.

[NuffDaddy]

Need Jehler in here with his ballistic software to show some number. I bet the difference in energy of a #5 and #7.5 pellet at 30 or 40 yards is huge.
I've hit clays with 7.5s that don't go through. Do you really think that is enough to blow up the ass of a pheasant and get to the vitals and break wings?

[R. Chapman]

Need Jehler in here with his ballistic software to show some number. I bet the difference in energy of a #5 and #7.5 pellet at 30 or 40 yards is huge.
I've hit clays with 7.5s that don't go through. Do you really think that is enough to blow up the ass of a pheasant and get to the vitals and break wings?

As a matter of fact I do, and I can prove 100/100 times. Please remember that just because a computer spits out info doesn't mean that it is actually that. The software program I used to use was always way off. I'm talking 300-400 fps off in velocity and nearly a foot off in drop, wind drift etc. You have to physically go out and test, not really on computer generated data.

[NuffDaddy]

The software program I used to use was always way off. I'm talking 300-400 fps off in velocity and nearly a foot off in drop, wind drift etc. You have to physically go out and test, not really on computer generated data.

I find this hard to believe unless you were putting in incorrect input data for the load you were testing. Air resistance and gravity are pretty constant forces.
What have you don't to actually test the ballistic difference between 7.5 and 5 shot? Chronograph? Ballistic gel? Pattern board?

[3legged_lab]

If you can't understand that a heavier object carries more down range energy than a lighter object, which your analogies support, then there really isn't anything else to talk about.

[R. Chapman]

My question to you is did you understand what I was making a point out of? The .323" diameter bullet is the number5 shot while the .308" diameter bullet is the number 7.5 shot. See how I used that as an example? What I meant by the same bullet was they're both shooting say a Woodleigh Weldcore or a Swift Scirocco or a Nosler AccuBond.

But the larger bullet WILL hit harder. Just because both will kill doesn't mean they are carrying the same energy. Somewhere you have to draw the line where they are no longer effective though.
And again, your comparing rifle ballistics to shotshell. Completely different.

But yet they're alike in similar ways. wind drift of a pattern, drop of the pattern etc. etc.. Your making it sound like we're trying to shoot pheasants at over 75 yards; most normal people don'attempt that shot. Most of the pheasant hunting that I've experienced has dealt with close range of under 30 yards. More like 15-20. At that distance, it doesn't matter what kind of lead your throwing, that's a dead ass pheasant if you hit it. I'd prefer 7.5s to 5s at the range. I've watched some guys who could really wing shoot hit pheasants going perpendicular at about 60 yards and just knock the living shit out of it. Yet the other guy with the bigger shot is having a tough time because the holes are getting increasingly bigger the farther out. You have more density in your pattern with 1 1/8 oz of 7.5s than you do with 1 1/4 oz of 5s or 4s. That's why I choose 7.5s because the density is perfect for shots under 30 yards, and it should have a more uniform pattern. Just my opinion...

[R. Chapman]

If you can't understand that a heavier object carries more down range energy than a lighter object, which your analogies support, then there really isn't anything else to talk about.

I understand that, but for shots under 30 yards, its hardly noticable.

[R. Chapman]

The software program I used to use was always way off. I'm talking 300-400 fps off in velocity and nearly a foot off in drop, wind drift etc. You have to physically go out and test, not really on computer generated data.

I find this hard to believe unless you were putting in incorrect input data for the load you were testing. Air resistance and gravity are pretty constant forces.
What have you don't to actually test the ballistic difference between 7.5 and 5 shot? Chronograph? Ballistic gel? Pattern board?

Chronograph, and patterned board, pattern uniformity test (that's a bitch). The pattern trend i've noticed is alot of you guys are treating a shotgun as if it were a rifle. Weighing each individual charge for a shotgun is just a pain in the ass and is better off to measure in uniformity with the powder. Unless for some reason your shooting stick powder through shotgun loads, what the hell is the point of weighing each charge of flake powder???

[sws002]

If you can't understand that a heavier object carries more down range energy than a lighter object, which your analogies support, then there really isn't anything else to talk about.

I understand that, but for shots under 30 yards, its hardly noticable.

For shots under 30 yards it's irrelevant. And at that, I would still prefer heavier shot for better pass through and less pellets in the meat.

[NuffDaddy]

The software program I used to use was always way off. I'm talking 300-400 fps off in velocity and nearly a foot off in drop, wind drift etc. You have to physically go out and test, not really on computer generated data.

I find this hard to believe unless you were putting in incorrect input data for the load you were testing. Air resistance and gravity are pretty constant forces.
What have you don't to actually test the ballistic difference between 7.5 and 5 shot? Chronograph? Ballistic gel? Pattern board?

Chronograph, and patterned board, pattern uniformity test (that's a bitch). The pattern trend i've noticed is alot of you guys are treating a shotgun as if it were a rifle. Weighing each individual charge for a shotgun is just a pain in the ass and is better off to measure in uniformity with the powder. Unless for some reason your shooting stick powder through shotgun loads, what the hell is the point of weighing each charge of flake powder???

So I only have 45gr of powder that produces 11000psi and not 46gr that produces 12000psi and does damage to my gun. Light loads I just drop, but all hunting loads get weighed on the digital within 2/10s of a grain.

[R. Chapman]

Need Jehler in here with his ballistic software to show some number. I bet the difference in energy of a #5 and #7.5 pellet at 30 or 40 yards is huge.
I've hit clays with 7.5s that don't go through. Do you really think that is enough to blow up the ass of a pheasant and get to the vitals and break wings?

Then you didn't hit that clay target period, unless you had a squib. I was 26 handicap shooter before the ATA lost all of my info along with 1450 other peoples info. Right now I stand at 23 yards and progressively moving back. What also can happen is you had a hole in your pattern big enough that a white flyer might have gotten dusted off the top to make it wobble.

[R. Chapman]

FYI my target load produces 10600 PSI. Your gun can handle safely up to 2 times that amount of pressure at least. Check some loading manuals and targets loads in there. You'll see that PSI is similar to most hunting loads.

[NuffDaddy]

But yet they're alike in similar ways. wind drift of a pattern, drop of the pattern etc. etc..

Most of the pheasant hunting that I've experienced has dealt with close range of under 30 yards. More like 15-20.

If you are worried about wind drift and pattern drop at 15-30 yards with lead shot, then I really can't justify writing another post in here.
And if you are shooting anything at 15 yards without a open choke and and possibly a spreader the above statement also applies.

And 60 yards with 7.5?????
That is ridiculous. Pretty sure a pheasant would laugh if they far hit out there with a pellet that light.

[NuffDaddy]

Need Jehler in here with his ballistic software to show some number. I bet the difference in energy of a #5 and #7.5 pellet at 30 or 40 yards is huge.
I've hit clays with 7.5s that don't go through. Do you really think that is enough to blow up the ass of a pheasant and get to the vitals and break wings?

Then you didn't hit that clay target period, unless you had a squib. I was 26 handicap shooter before the ATA lost all of my info along with 1450 other peoples info. Right now I stand at 23 yards and progressively moving back. What also can happen is you had a hole in your pattern big enough that a white flyer might have gotten dusted off the top to make it wobble.

Shooting in the field behind our cabin. Probably 35ish yards. We pick up the whole clays when we are done. Usually a couple will have some pretty obvious hits that never went trough the clay. And they hit a square spot on it, not a glancing hit.

[NuffDaddy]

FYI my target load produces 10600 PSI. Your gun can handle safely up to 2 times that amount of pressure at least. Check some loading manuals and targets loads in there. You'll see that PSI is similar to most hunting loads.

So your saying my gun can handle 21200psi?

[R. Chapman]

Why don't you try hunting with handicap loads then next time smart ass. I shoot at 60 yard targets every saturday the trap club is open. I have my Perazzi shooting 120/-20. Only reason is rising target and distance. I shoot those same kind of targets about 7500 times in 4 months. I know a whole lot about drop of a pattern. That pheasant didn't laugh; he couldn't, that son of a gun was dead as a rock.

[R. Chapman]

Need Jehler in here with his ballistic software to show some number. I bet the difference in energy of a #5 and #7.5 pellet at 30 or 40 yards is huge.
I've hit clays with 7.5s that don't go through. Do you really think that is enough to blow up the ass of a pheasant and get to the vitals and break wings?

Then you didn't hit that clay target period, unless you had a squib. I was 26 handicap shooter before the ATA lost all of my info along with 1450 other peoples info. Right now I stand at 23 yards and progressively moving back. What also can happen is you had a hole in your pattern big enough that a white flyer might have gotten dusted off the top to make it wobble.

Shooting in the field behind our cabin. Probably 35ish yards. We pick up the whole clays when we are done. Usually a couple will have some pretty obvious hits that never went trough the clay. And they hit a square spot on it, not a glancing hit.

What targets are you using? Champions?

[NuffDaddy]

Need Jehler in here with his ballistic software to show some number. I bet the difference in energy of a #5 and #7.5 pellet at 30 or 40 yards is huge.
I've hit clays with 7.5s that don't go through. Do you really think that is enough to blow up the ass of a pheasant and get to the vitals and break wings?

Then you didn't hit that clay target period, unless you had a squib. I was 26 handicap shooter before the ATA lost all of my info along with 1450 other peoples info. Right now I stand at 23 yards and progressively moving back. What also can happen is you had a hole in your pattern big enough that a white flyer might have gotten dusted off the top to make it wobble.

Shooting in the field behind our cabin. Probably 35ish yards. We pick up the whole clays when we are done. Usually a couple will have some pretty obvious hits that never went trough the clay. And they hit a square spot on it, not a glancing hit.

What targets are you using? Champions?

The orange ones

[R. Chapman]

FYI my target load produces 10600 PSI. Your gun can handle safely up to 2 times that amount of pressure at least. Check some loading manuals and targets loads in there. You'll see that PSI is similar to most hunting loads.

So your saying my gun can handle 21200psi?

Any well built shotgun should be able to handle three times list PSIs. If they couldn't, they'd be out of business because some dumbfuck sues them for making an over load that blows up a barrel that can only handle up to 13000 PSI. Or a factory load he buys is overloaded and blows up because the barrel is a max of 15000 psi but that load produced 25000 psi.

[AKPirate]

Rex if your hunting wild birds on public land under a variety of field conditions and everything else being equal, the guy hunting with 5 shot will end up with more birds at the end of the season. Just from my experience chasing them in Washington and South Dakota.

[NuffDaddy]

Why don't you try hunting with handicap loads then next time smart ass. I shoot at 60 yard targets every saturday the trap club is open. I have my Perazzi shooting 120/-20. Only reason is rising target and distance. I shoot those same kind of targets about 7500 times in 4 months. I know a whole lot about drop of a pattern. That pheasant didn't laugh; he couldn't, that son of a gun was dead as a rock.

Because I don't like chasing cripples.
I don't know what most of the rest of your post means, so I'm going to ignore it.
You know how far 60 yards is right.
I don't think a target load even shoots that far.

[R. Chapman]

Need Jehler in here with his ballistic software to show some number. I bet the difference in energy of a #5 and #7.5 pellet at 30 or 40 yards is huge.
I've hit clays with 7.5s that don't go through. Do you really think that is enough to blow up the ass of a pheasant and get to the vitals and break wings?

Then you didn't hit that clay target period, unless you had a squib. I was 26 handicap shooter before the ATA lost all of my info along with 1450 other peoples info. Right now I stand at 23 yards and progressively moving back. What also can happen is you had a hole in your pattern big enough that a white flyer might have gotten dusted off the top to make it wobble.

Shooting in the field behind our cabin. Probably 35ish yards. We pick up the whole clays when we are done. Usually a couple will have some pretty obvious hits that never went trough the clay. And they hit a square spot on it, not a glancing hit.

What targets are you using? Champions?

The orange ones

No shit, who were they made by, Winchester, White Flyer, Champion, CGC?

[NuffDaddy]

Why don't you try hunting with handicap loads then next time smart ass. I shoot at 60 yard targets every saturday the trap club is open. I have my Perazzi shooting 120/-20. Only reason is rising target and distance. I shoot those same kind of targets about 7500 times in 4 months. I know a whole lot about drop of a pattern. That pheasant didn't laugh; he couldn't, that son of a gun was dead as a rock.

Because I don't like chasing cripples.
I don't know what most of the rest of your post means, so I'm going to ignore it.
You know how far 60 yards is right.
I don't think a target load even shoots that far.

I lied. I accidentally shot my mom and uncle at about 80 yards with some 6 shot target loads. They said it felt like a bee sting. Sure that would drop a pheasant out of the sky though.

[NuffDaddy]

FYI my target load produces 10600 PSI. Your gun can handle safely up to 2 times that amount of pressure at least. Check some loading manuals and targets loads in there. You'll see that PSI is similar to most hunting loads.

So your saying my gun can handle 21200psi?

Any well built shotgun should be able to handle three times list PSIs. If they couldn't, they'd be out of business because some dumbfuck sues them for making an over load that blows up a barrel that can only handle up to 13000 PSI. Or a factory load he buys is overloaded and blows up because the barrel is a max of 15000 psi but that load produced 25000 psi.

Anybody here know of any 3" 12ga loads that run over 15000psi? I've never seen one in any reloading manuals ever. Is it even possible to make that kind of pressure in a shotshell?

[NuffDaddy]

[quote="NuffDaddy"]Need Jehler in here with his ballistic software to show some number. I bet the difference in energy of a #5 and #7.5 pellet at 30 or 40 yards is huge.
I've hit clays with 7.5s that don't go through. Do you really think that is enough to blow up the ass of a pheasant and get to the vitals and break wings?

Then you didn't hit that clay target period, unless you had a squib. I was 26 handicap shooter before the ATA lost all of my info along with 1450 other peoples info. Right now I stand at 23 yards and progressively moving back. What also can happen is you had a hole in your pattern big enough that a white flyer might have gotten dusted off the top to make it wobble.

Shooting in the field behind our cabin. Probably 35ish yards. We pick up the whole clays when we are done. Usually a couple will have some pretty obvious hits that never went trough the clay. And they hit a square spot on it, not a glancing hit.

What targets are you using? Champions?

The orange ones

No shit, who were they made by, Winchester, White Flyer, Champion, CGC?[/quote]
Yes

[NuffDaddy]

I shot some of the yellow ones a couple times too.

[R. Chapman]

Why don't you try hunting with handicap loads then next time smart ass. I shoot at 60 yard targets every saturday the trap club is open. I have my Perazzi shooting 120/-20. Only reason is rising target and distance. I shoot those same kind of targets about 7500 times in 4 months. I know a whole lot about drop of a pattern. That pheasant didn't laugh; he couldn't, that son of a gun was dead as a rock.

Because I don't like chasing cripples.
I don't know what most of the rest of your post means, so I'm going to ignore it.
You know how far 60 yards is right.
I don't think a target load even shoots that far.

Then fly your ass out here to MT and I'll pay for your 4 rounds of trap to show you that targets loads have some distance. At the 27 yard line, when that target reaches it's peak, it's exactly 62 yards. I turn them into little ink balls from the 27 all day long. My average from 27 yards as it stands is 95.834/100%. That's about as good of a handicap average from the back fence as you can get.

[R. Chapman]

Why don't you try hunting with handicap loads then next time smart ass. I shoot at 60 yard targets every saturday the trap club is open. I have my Perazzi shooting 120/-20. Only reason is rising target and distance. I shoot those same kind of targets about 7500 times in 4 months. I know a whole lot about drop of a pattern. That pheasant didn't laugh; he couldn't, that son of a gun was dead as a rock.

Because I don't like chasing cripples.
I don't know what most of the rest of your post means, so I'm going to ignore it.
You know how far 60 yards is right.
I don't think a target load even shoots that far.

I lied. I accidentally shot my mom and uncle at about 80 yards with some 6 shot target loads. They said it felt like a bee sting. Sure that would drop a pheasant out of the sky though.

Well your making yourself sound not so intelligent. Because there is no such thing a 6 size shot target loads.

[R. Chapman]

FYI my target load produces 10600 PSI. Your gun can handle safely up to 2 times that amount of pressure at least. Check some loading manuals and targets loads in there. You'll see that PSI is similar to most hunting loads.

So your saying my gun can handle 21200psi?

Any well built shotgun should be able to handle three times list PSIs. If they couldn't, they'd be out of business because some dumbfuck sues them for making an over load that blows up a barrel that can only handle up to 13000 PSI. Or a factory load he buys is overloaded and blows up because the barrel is a max of 15000 psi but that load produced 25000 psi.

Anybody here know of any 3" 12ga loads that run over 15000psi? I've never seen one in any reloading manuals ever. Is it even possible to make that kind of pressure in a shotshell?

It's possible...

[NuffDaddy]

Why don't you try hunting with handicap loads then next time smart ass. I shoot at 60 yard targets every saturday the trap club is open. I have my Perazzi shooting 120/-20. Only reason is rising target and distance. I shoot those same kind of targets about 7500 times in 4 months. I know a whole lot about drop of a pattern. That pheasant didn't laugh; he couldn't, that son of a gun was dead as a rock.

Because I don't like chasing cripples.
I don't know what most of the rest of your post means, so I'm going to ignore it.
You know how far 60 yards is right.
I don't think a target load even shoots that far.

I lied. I accidentally shot my mom and uncle at about 80 yards with some 6 shot target loads. They said it felt like a bee sting. Sure that would drop a pheasant out of the sky though.

Well your making yourself sound not so intelligent. Because there is no such thing a 6 size shot target loads.

There is when I make em.