for all you pros

[jarbo03]

[quote="Redbeard"]I have no doubt a dog trained by professional trainers, rather than an average joe, may wind up being a better trained dog the majority of the time. My assumption is they have more experience and more time to devote.

i dont think so. you are doing a great job.making me look sloppy
some of the very best dogs i have ever hunted over were bred and trained by some old country folks. never been to a HT/FT and never would.
seen lots of money change hands and a pissed off city guy load his pro trained dog into the back of the truck.heading home with less cash and a mouth full of crow

I would agree with Red, as long as we're talking about retrievers. I have seen some high trained retrievers, they were amazing to watch. They couldn't out hunt any of the dogs I've had, but they handled awesome at some crazy long distances. With pointers, I'll take whatever dog sees more wild birds.

you guys are selling yourselves short.

We don't lack the abilities to train dogs to a high level, mostly folks like me lack time, supply of live birds, and training areas. I train Taz when work, weather and time permit. Pros do it everyday. Unfortunately many on the forums are jerkoffs.

time is a huge issue.if my dumb ass can train a lAb to go pick something up and bring it back to me,it cant be that hard.now stock dogs i will admit im a fucking STUD!!!!! [/quote]

My cousin used to date a gal, her dad was very big into the hanging tree cowdog. He ran a big ranch near Cottonwood Falls, those were impressive dogs.

[Bootlipkiller]

Ahh yeah, don't you have a strawberry long haired retriever?

It's a strawberry water spaniel but we all know they must be reminded to breath and thus cannot be considered real dogs.


Sent from an undisclosed location on the river

[Eric Haynes]

Ahh yeah, don't you have a strawberry long haired retriever?

It's a strawberry water spaniel but we all know they must be reminded to breath and thus cannot be considered real dogs.


Sent from an undisclosed location on the river

She is a cutie though!!!

Wanna cross breed her with my lab and post the Pups up on DHC?

Sent from my LG-L38C using Tapatalk 2

[jehler]

If Jehler can walk a lawyer through how to build a house

Whoa, way to give a guy anxiety first thing in the morning

[Redbeard]

I probably agree with Red and Jarbo. If you take a big sample of well-trained hunting dogs, the pros will have a far greater degree of "successful" training than the Joes.

That being said, Joes can train dogs well, too. Just because it doesn't happen all the time doesn't mean it's not possible or even probable. I look at it this way- I'll always give someone help when they're building a house or something. I'm not gonna say "you're a doctor, not a carpenter. Go hire a professional." But that seems to be common with a lot of professional trainers, and I don't know why. I think we're pretty fortunate to have a couple very helpful pros here, but as has been said, other places make me want to punch a baby. If Jehler can walk a lawyer through how to build a house without saying "you have no business doing this, you aren't a professional", there's absolutely no reason why a dog trainer can't do the same thing.

very well said my friend

[jehler]

If you all woulda bought an English lab we wouldn't need to talk about this kinda shit, born hunters, even OB is instinct

[JGUN]

If you all woulda bought an English lab we wouldn't need to talk about this kinda shit, born chipmunk hunters, even tail chasing is instinct

FIFY

[assateague]

If you all woulda bought an English lab we wouldn't need to talk about this kinda shit, born hunters, even OB is instinct

My vet has a Wildrose dog. I told him that explained the price his office charges for vaccinations.

[Flightstopper]

If you all woulda bought an English lab we wouldn't need to talk about this kinda shit, born hunters, even OB is instinct

My vet has a Wildrose dog. I told him that explained the price his office charges for vaccinations.

how did that go over?

[Redbeard]

If you all woulda bought an English lab we wouldn't need to talk about this kinda shit, born hunters, even OB is instinct

My vet has a Wildrose dog. I told him that explained the price his office charges for vaccinations.

how did that go over?

oh I'm sure the vet's the preacher, sheriff and his wife's cousin

[assateague]

If you all woulda bought an English lab we wouldn't need to talk about this kinda shit, born hunters, even OB is instinct

My vet has a Wildrose dog. I told him that explained the price his office charges for vaccinations.

how did that go over?

He just chuckled. I went up a few notches when I brought in Dutch instead of The Dingo, though. He loves that dog. Invited me out to train with him at his retriever club, which we're going to do. Just want to get a little more OB before I go make an ass of myself.

[Matt Duncan]

this isnt a troll. i want to know what you pros think that is so hard to train a lab or chessie? this stems from corncob on that other site.
you guys act like its such a hard thing. pointer guys feel the same way.the versatile crew does do more then the last two.
you guys act like you are gods among men. when it isnt in anyway remotely close to training a stock dog or a service dog.yet them trainers dont go tooting their own horns,and sticking up for each other by telling someone how many trophies or ribbons they or someone else has.
all you guys training new pups(aaron and jim) this is not directed to you, you guys are doing it yourself like it should be and your pups are doin a damn fine job.
do the pros exaggerate the difficulty just to slob on each others knobs, and keep simple minded people cutting them checks for easy money?

There is some awfully broad statements here. If you want to address these guys you are talking about then do it over on the site you are referring to or better yet in person you know kinda like grown men do... But I will try to answer some of your questions or false statements and I can only speak for myself not any other trainers.

Whats so hard about training a retriever? I guess that is dependent on what you want your end product to be and the dog the client brings you. Time is what makes it hard for most amatures and is still an issue for most pros. Efficiency in training is everything. Some people simply do not have the patients, know how, property and equipment to do it efficiently and get the end result they want on their own. Most people also want to see there dog reach it's full potential and think that is going to be easier to accomplish using a pro. What is your issue with other people campaigning their dogs and how does that affect you? It's their dogs and their business. Pro's run tests and trials simply because it's their job. The client brings you a dog and tells you their goals for that dog and you work from before sunrise to well after sunset to make that happen. Being a good pro is not "easy money". Here's an easy days work for you.
530am- feed, air dogs and clean kennels
630am- obedience and FF on those dogs needing it.
830am- load dogs head to rounds and run land marks
1200pm- grab lunch ( maybe but usually don't have time)
1230pm -pick up and move to water for dogs (decheated and swim by)
200 pm- pick up and move again run water marks
500 pm- pick up and head to drill field (FTP, T, TT, pattern blinds)
6oopm - Pick up and head to new grounds for dogs running cold blinds.
800pm - feed put dogs away.
830pm- obedience and FF for those dogs needing it.
1030pm- air dogs
1100pm- done with the easy days work of course after texts and emails to clients are returned.
Forgot to add in time for meeting with visiting clients, running dogs to the vet, repairing and maintaining equipment and having a family. Why do it? Because most of us find it to be a very rewarding job and we enjoy it. Probably because its such "easy money"
How many hours a week do you work and how many days off do you have? We get a weekend too but that's for campaigning dogs for clients in those awful hunt tests you know nothing about and hate so much.. Who's bragging and slobbing knobs? Driving home from tests the last couple weekends my dashboard has been covered in ribbons, haven't heard a damn word have you? If you have something against pros, don't use them. It is a service just the same as having your oil changed or sending your kid to school, you could do both of those on your own as well... But if you think it's "easy money" you have in fact had one2many..

[one2many]

Ahh yeah, don't you have a strawberry long haired retriever?

It's a strawberry water spaniel but we all know they must be reminded to breath and thus cannot be considered real dogs.


Sent from an undisclosed location on the river

[one2many]

this isnt a troll. i want to know what you pros think that is so hard to train a lab or chessie? this stems from corncob on that other site.
you guys act like its such a hard thing. pointer guys feel the same way.the versatile crew does do more then the last two.
you guys act like you are gods among men. when it isnt in anyway remotely close to training a stock dog or a service dog.yet them trainers dont go tooting their own horns,and sticking up for each other by telling someone how many trophies or ribbons they or someone else has.
all you guys training new pups(aaron and jim) this is not directed to you, you guys are doing it yourself like it should be and your pups are doin a damn fine job.
do the pros exaggerate the difficulty just to slob on each others knobs, and keep simple minded people cutting them checks for easy money?

There is some awfully broad statements here. If you want to address these guys you are talking about then do it over on the site you are referring to or better yet in person you know kinda like grown men do... But I will try to answer some of your questions or false statements and I can only speak for myself not any other trainers.

Whats so hard about training a retriever? I guess that is dependent on what you want your end product to be and the dog the client brings you. Time is what makes it hard for most amatures and is still an issue for most pros. Efficiency in training is everything. Some people simply do not have the patients, know how, property and equipment to do it efficiently and get the end result they want on their own. Most people also want to see there dog reach it's full potential and think that is going to be easier to accomplish using a pro. What is your issue with other people campaigning their dogs and how does that affect you? It's their dogs and their business. Pro's run tests and trials simply because it's their job. The client brings you a dog and tells you their goals for that dog and you work from before sunrise to well after sunset to make that happen. Being a good pro is not "easy money". Here's an easy days work for you.
530am- feed, air dogs and clean kennels
630am- obedience and FF on those dogs needing it.
830am- load dogs head to rounds and run land marks
1200pm- grab lunch ( maybe but usually don't have time)
1230pm -pick up and move to water for dogs (decheated and swim by)
200 pm- pick up and move again run water marks
500 pm- pick up and head to drill field (FTP, T, TT, pattern blinds)
6oopm - Pick up and head to new grounds for dogs running cold blinds.
800pm - feed put dogs away.
830pm- obedience and FF for those dogs needing it.
1030pm- air dogs
1100pm- done with the easy days work of course after texts and emails to clients are returned.
Forgot to add in time for meeting with visiting clients, running dogs to the vet, repairing and maintaining equipment and having a family. Why do it? Because most of us find it to be a very rewarding job and we enjoy it. Probably because its such "easy money"
How many hours a week do you work and how many days off do you have? We get a weekend too but that's for campaigning dogs for clients in those awful hunt tests you know nothing about and hate so much.. Who's bragging and slobbing knobs? Driving home from tests the last couple weekends my dashboard has been covered in ribbons, haven't heard a damn word have you? If you have something against pros, don't use them. It is a service just the same as having your oil changed or sending your kid to school, you could do both of those on your own as well... But if you think it's "easy money" you have in fact had one2many..

did i step on your toes a bit. i stopped reading when you sugested i do this face to face like REAL MEN.not a path you want to walk down son

[assateague]

this isnt a troll. i want to know what you pros think that is so hard to train a lab or chessie? this stems from corncob on that other site.
you guys act like its such a hard thing. pointer guys feel the same way.the versatile crew does do more then the last two.
you guys act like you are gods among men. when it isnt in anyway remotely close to training a stock dog or a service dog.yet them trainers dont go tooting their own horns,and sticking up for each other by telling someone how many trophies or ribbons they or someone else has.
all you guys training new pups(aaron and jim) this is not directed to you, you guys are doing it yourself like it should be and your pups are doin a damn fine job.
do the pros exaggerate the difficulty just to slob on each others knobs, and keep simple minded people cutting them checks for easy money?

There is some awfully broad statements here. If you want to address these guys you are talking about then do it over on the site you are referring to or better yet in person you know kinda like grown men do... But I will try to answer some of your questions or false statements and I can only speak for myself not any other trainers.

Whats so hard about training a retriever? I guess that is dependent on what you want your end product to be and the dog the client brings you. Time is what makes it hard for most amatures and is still an issue for most pros. Efficiency in training is everything. Some people simply do not have the patients, know how, property and equipment to do it efficiently and get the end result they want on their own. Most people also want to see there dog reach it's full potential and think that is going to be easier to accomplish using a pro. What is your issue with other people campaigning their dogs and how does that affect you? It's their dogs and their business. Pro's run tests and trials simply because it's their job. The client brings you a dog and tells you their goals for that dog and you work from before sunrise to well after sunset to make that happen. Being a good pro is not "easy money". Here's an easy days work for you.
530am- feed, air dogs and clean kennels
630am- obedience and FF on those dogs needing it.
830am- load dogs head to rounds and run land marks
1200pm- grab lunch ( maybe but usually don't have time)
1230pm -pick up and move to water for dogs (decheated and swim by)
200 pm- pick up and move again run water marks
500 pm- pick up and head to drill field (FTP, T, TT, pattern blinds)
6oopm - Pick up and head to new grounds for dogs running cold blinds.
800pm - feed put dogs away.
830pm- obedience and FF for those dogs needing it.
1030pm- air dogs
1100pm- done with the easy days work of course after texts and emails to clients are returned.
Forgot to add in time for meeting with visiting clients, running dogs to the vet, repairing and maintaining equipment and having a family. Why do it? Because most of us find it to be a very rewarding job and we enjoy it. Probably because its such "easy money"
How many hours a week do you work and how many days off do you have? We get a weekend too but that's for campaigning dogs for clients in those awful hunt tests you know nothing about and hate so much.. Who's bragging and slobbing knobs? Driving home from tests the last couple weekends my dashboard has been covered in ribbons, haven't heard a damn word have you? If you have something against pros, don't use them. It is a service just the same as having your oil changed or sending your kid to school, you could do both of those on your own as well... But if you think it's "easy money" you have in fact had one2many..

What is "decheated"?

[jehler]

this isnt a troll. i want to know what you pros think that is so hard to train a lab or chessie? this stems from corncob on that other site.
you guys act like its such a hard thing. pointer guys feel the same way.the versatile crew does do more then the last two.
you guys act like you are gods among men. when it isnt in anyway remotely close to training a stock dog or a service dog.yet them trainers dont go tooting their own horns,and sticking up for each other by telling someone how many trophies or ribbons they or someone else has.
all you guys training new pups(aaron and jim) this is not directed to you, you guys are doing it yourself like it should be and your pups are doin a damn fine job.
do the pros exaggerate the difficulty just to slob on each others knobs, and keep simple minded people cutting them checks for easy money?

There is some awfully broad statements here. If you want to address these guys you are talking about then do it over on the site you are referring to or better yet in person you know kinda like grown men do... But I will try to answer some of your questions or false statements and I can only speak for myself not any other trainers.

Whats so hard about training a retriever? I guess that is dependent on what you want your end product to be and the dog the client brings you. Time is what makes it hard for most amatures and is still an issue for most pros. Efficiency in training is everything. Some people simply do not have the patients, know how, property and equipment to do it efficiently and get the end result they want on their own. Most people also want to see there dog reach it's full potential and think that is going to be easier to accomplish using a pro. What is your issue with other people campaigning their dogs and how does that affect you? It's their dogs and their business. Pro's run tests and trials simply because it's their job. The client brings you a dog and tells you their goals for that dog and you work from before sunrise to well after sunset to make that happen. Being a good pro is not "easy money". Here's an easy days work for you.
530am- feed, air dogs and clean kennels
630am- obedience and FF on those dogs needing it.
830am- load dogs head to rounds and run land marks
1200pm- grab lunch ( maybe but usually don't have time)
1230pm -pick up and move to water for dogs (decheated and swim by)
200 pm- pick up and move again run water marks
500 pm- pick up and head to drill field (FTP, T, TT, pattern blinds)
6oopm - Pick up and head to new grounds for dogs running cold blinds.
800pm - feed put dogs away.
830pm- obedience and FF for those dogs needing it.
1030pm- air dogs
1100pm- done with the easy days work of course after texts and emails to clients are returned.
Forgot to add in time for meeting with visiting clients, running dogs to the vet, repairing and maintaining equipment and having a family. Why do it? Because most of us find it to be a very rewarding job and we enjoy it. Probably because its such "easy money"
How many hours a week do you work and how many days off do you have? We get a weekend too but that's for campaigning dogs for clients in those awful hunt tests you know nothing about and hate so much.. Who's bragging and slobbing knobs? Driving home from tests the last couple weekends my dashboard has been covered in ribbons, haven't heard a damn word have you? If you have something against pros, don't use them. It is a service just the same as having your oil changed or sending your kid to school, you could do both of those on your own as well... But if you think it's "easy money" you have in fact had one2many..

did i step on your toes a bit. i stopped reading when you sugested i do this face to face like REAL MEN.not a path you want to walk down son

he's got a point, and I'll walk down any road, I ain't skeered

[Matt Duncan]

decheating is a part of training to teach the dog not to cheat or run the bank. Dogs that cheat the bank will often get disoriented and lost on tough marks as opposed to just taking a line straight to the bird.

[assateague]

Gotcha.

[Matt Duncan]

did i step on your toes a bit. i stopped reading when you sugested i do this face to face like REAL MEN.not a path you want to walk down son[/quote]

Hey Bud you are the one whining at your keyboard and talking out of your ass about something you know nothing about not me. You haven't stepped on my toes. I've walked down enough nasty paths all over the globe, yours is not one I'm concerned with... Just continue whining and expressing your opinions based on your vast internet forum education.

[goodkarmarising]

decheating is a part of training to teach the dog not to cheat or run the bank. Dogs that cheat the bank will often get disoriented and lost on tough marks as opposed to just taking a line straight to the bird.

And that is one of the biggest reasons why I will never send my retriever to a pro or run retriever trials. My dog has enough sense to figure out the easiest way to get a bird out of the water. Work smarter not harder.

[Feelin' Fowl]

decheating is a part of training to teach the dog not to cheat or run the bank. Dogs that cheat the bank will often get disoriented and lost on tough marks as opposed to just taking a line straight to the bird.

And that is one of the biggest reasons why I will never send my retriever to a pro or run retriever trials. My dog has enough sense to figure out the easiest way to get a bird out of the water. Work smarter not harder.

I think that Matt's way makes sense. Dogs are supposed too work hard...

[goodkarmarising]

I fully expect my dog to work hard and he will go everytime I say go, but I'm not going to keep my dog in the water to prove that I can control him.

[Feelin' Fowl]

I fully expect my dog to work hard and he will go everytime I say go, but I'm not going to keep my dog in the water to prove that I can control him.

I think keeping him in the water to not lose a bird makes sense. It's not so much about controlling him, but making the mark as easy to remember as possible.

Your dog, your rules. I'm no dog trainer, and I'm not saying your way is wrong. I'm just saying that Matt's way makes a lot of sense to me.

[assateague]

In with GK. Nothing against Matt at all, though. I've seen far more dumb people than dumb dogs, myself included, and would even be more inclined to trust The Dingo than my own eyes.

[Redbeard]

decheating is a part of training to teach the dog not to cheat or run the bank. Dogs that cheat the bank will often get disoriented and lost on tough marks as opposed to just taking a line straight to the bird.

And that is one of the biggest reasons why I will never send my retriever to a pro or run retriever trials. My dog has enough sense to figure out the easiest way to get a bird out of the water. Work smarter not harder.

I get what Matt was saying and have to agree with him. Notice he said "tough marks?" I've gotten disoriented myself walking a bank after a bird I marked go down in the tules 40 yards away. For a simple mark that hits the water in front of your blind...of course that's an easy mark and a decent experienced dog wont get disoriented.

[Redbeard]

I fully expect my dog to work hard and he will go everytime I say go, but I'm not going to keep my dog in the water to prove that I can control him.

Charlie has cheated the bank before and when he gets near where the mark 30-40 yards away in thick tules, he exerts way too much energy fighting tules and listening to my damn "over" commands an whistle before he finally finds the bird. Had he not cheated and took the line to the mark, he would've worked way less at the retrieve.

I think it's situational. I don't know what kinda terrain or water you hunt. I don't know what kinda vegetation surrounds your water. I don't know what kinda laser guided gps systems you've installed in your dogs.

[Matt Duncan]

to me it's not so much about having the dog work harder but having the dog work smarter. By the dog taking a straight line to the bird dog is less likely to get lost on the mark which results in an extended hunt on the bird where I have a dog in cold water swimming 3 or 4 minutes trying to come up with 40 yard mark. when the dogs picking up a single it probably doesn't make a big difference if you're dropping birds in the decoys but when the dog is marking multiples three or four birds it's important for the dog to go out come straight back.a lot of times I'll see a dog that would rather run 60 yards on the bank than swim 20 to get the bird. When the dog is marking the dog takes a mental picture of where where that mark is and when the dog is running all over the place putting on an extended hunt he is eating up memory. most of the time when a dog runs the bank is not running on the bank because he doesn't like the water or its easier he is running on the bank because its faster. at the end of the day the dog that runs and swims straight lines works less than a dog that cheats and runs all over the place. .the shortest distance between two points is a straight line and that is where decheating comes into play. if one doesn't care that their dog runs on the bank that's their prerogative and I won't knock anybody for it but this is why I do it and I see everyday how much easier it is on the dogs and how much more successful those dogs that runs straight are at coming up with the bird.

[jarbo03]

All of that makes good sense Matt. What kind of situations do you set up to work on decheating. Taz likes to cheat, and as most in the know would agree, griffs naturally do not mark as well as the retriever breeds. Have seen him struggle with 2nd and 3rd marks, and i'm wondering if working on this could help.

[Redbeard]

All of that makes good sense Matt. What kind of situations do you set up to work on decheating. Taz likes to cheat, and as most in the know would agree, griffs naturally do not mark as well as the retriever breeds. Have seen him struggle with 2nd and 3rd marks, and i'm wondering if working on this could help.

uh oh the one member of the Kansas killing krew who over trains his dog speaks!

[goodkarmarising]

Most of the time when a dog runs the bank is not running on the bank because he doesn't like the water or its easier he is running on the bank because its faster. at the end of the day the dog that runs and swims straight lines works less than a dog that cheats and runs all over the place.

Is it easier for a dog to run a bank or to swim? So swimming is easier on a dog than running?