for all you pros

[Bootlipkiller]

Most of the time when a dog runs the bank is not running on the bank because he doesn't like the water or its easier he is running on the bank because its faster. at the end of the day the dog that runs and swims straight lines works less than a dog that cheats and runs all over the place.

Is it easier for a dog to run a bank or to swim? So swimming is easier on a dog than running?

Goodkarma it's what ever Matt says. Savvy?


Sent from an undisclosed location on the river

[goodkarmarising]

I know this would get my flogged on retriever sites and that other site...but I'm a firm believer in this.


http://www.fetchpup.com/training/watertraining.php

Bank Running Is Great
The training practice that is the most widespread and causes most water problems with retrievers is the practice of training them to not run the bank. Bank running is a natural and desirable trait in a hunting dog.

Field trials have produced the fiction that bank running is bad. This is totally untrue. Natural inclination of dog is to take fastest route. We should listen to Mother Nature and let the dog take the dry route on a retrieve. If you take staying in the water to its logical conclusion, you end up with a hypothermic dog.

The retriever's ultimate function is to retrieve ducks in cold water. The longer that retriever stays in the water, the more body heat he loses, and the fewer retrieves he will be physically able to make, before he succumbs to hypothermia, which also can and will kill him. Conversely, the more time he is running on land the more heat he is generating by the metabolism of his large muscle masses. Thus it is desirable for a retriever to run the bank wherever possible.

[Matt Duncan]

Most of the time when a dog runs the bank is not running on the bank because he doesn't like the water or its easier he is running on the bank because its faster. at the end of the day the dog that runs and swims straight lines works less than a dog that cheats and runs all over the place.

Is it easier for a dog to run a bank or to swim? So swimming is easier on a dog than running?

Swimming straight to the bird is a lot easier than running the bank jumping in and swimming in cold water for an extended period of time trying to hunt up the bird. Not knocking anyone for letting dogs cheat the bank and I'm not telling anyone what they should do with their dogs, I simply explained why I decheat my dogs.

BLK thank you for yet another one of your usefull posts. You always seem to make such useful contributions to the forum..

[Redbeard]

Most of the time when a dog runs the bank is not running on the bank because he doesn't like the water or its easier he is running on the bank because its faster. at the end of the day the dog that runs and swims straight lines works less than a dog that cheats and runs all over the place.

Is it easier for a dog to run a bank or to swim? So swimming is easier on a dog than running?

you seem to be missing the point

[jehler]

No dog works as hard as an English lab

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379361859.290836.jpg

[Bootlipkiller]

BLK thank you for yet another one of your usefull posts. You always seem to make such useful contributions to the forum..

Anytime Matt.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379362336.222878.jpg

Sent from an undisclosed location on the river

[Redbeard]

No dog works as hard as an English lab

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379361859.290836.jpg

you ain't fooling no one. Chach is obviously one of those scots-Irish labs

[The Duck Hammer]

BLK thank you for yet another one of your usefull posts. You always seem to make such useful contributions to the forum..

Anytime Matt.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379362336.222878.jpg

Sent from an undisclosed location on the river

Sent from my Vox Mortem

[Eric Haynes]

Most of the time when a dog runs the bank is not running on the bank because he doesn't like the water or its easier he is running on the bank because its faster. at the end of the day the dog that runs and swims straight lines works less than a dog that cheats and runs all over the place.

Is it easier for a dog to run a bank or to swim? So swimming is easier on a dog than running?

you seem to be missing the point

It's just being stubborn is all. I don't know any reason why you would ever not want to have your dog run a straight to a mark wherever possible. It's not about keeping them in water any longer just because you can. How do you train for cheating the bank? My dog has never cheated in any water retrieve, but will go around a small branch in the yard if it's in the way...go figure.

[Bootlipkiller]

Ahh yeah, don't you have a strawberry long haired retriever?

It's a strawberry water spaniel but we all know they must be reminded to breath and thus cannot be considered real dogs.


Sent from an undisclosed location on the river

She is a cutie though!!!

Wanna cross breed her with my lab and post the Pups up on DHC?

Sent from my LG-L38C using Tapatalk 2

Eric please refrain from calling my dog a girl, it really hurts his feelings.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379366546.191001.jpg

Sent from an undisclosed location on the river

[Eric Haynes]

Ahh yeah, don't you have a strawberry long haired retriever?

It's a strawberry water spaniel but we all know they must be reminded to breath and thus cannot be considered real dogs.


Sent from an undisclosed location on the river

She is a cutie though!!!

Wanna cross breed her with my lab and post the Pups up on DHC?

Sent from my LG-L38C using Tapatalk 2

Eric please refrain from calling my dog a girl, it really hurts his feelings.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379366546.191001.jpg

Sent from an undisclosed location on the river

Poor girl!

You are lucky, I have a female lab also. You still cool with this cross breed litter?

[jehler]

Just has chach retrieve a duck, went straight to it and straight back, no cheating

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379367750.951845.jpg

[jehler]

By the way, he's not allowed on the furniture, he won't get within 3' of that recliner when mommas home lol

[Bootlipkiller]

Ahh yeah, don't you have a strawberry long haired retriever?

It's a strawberry water spaniel but we all know they must be reminded to breath and thus cannot be considered real dogs.


Sent from an undisclosed location on the river

She is a cutie though!!!

Wanna cross breed her with my lab and post the Pups up on DHC?

Sent from my LG-L38C using Tapatalk 2

Eric please refrain from calling my dog a girl, it really hurts his feelings.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379366546.191001.jpg

Sent from an undisclosed location on the river

Poor girl!

You are lucky, I have a female lab also. You still cool with this cross breed litter?

Lets do it but only if we can call them boots bastards! They undoubtably will have nothing to contribute either.


Sent from an undisclosed location on the river

[Eric Haynes]

Lets do it but only if we can call them boots bastards! They undoubtably will have nothing to contribute either.


Sent from an undisclosed location on the river

Boot's Bastard Retriever by Boot Lip Kennels. Let's get it going.

[Bootlipkiller]

Lets do it but only if we can call them boots bastards! They undoubtably will have nothing to contribute either.


Sent from an undisclosed location on the river

Boot's Bastard Retriever by Boot Lip Kennels. Let's get it going.

Sent from an undisclosed location on the river

[goodkarmarising]

So...I am hunting a river with some current...I shouldn't l let my dog cheat the bank? Even when coming back to me?

[Eric Haynes]

So...I am hunting a river with some current...I shouldn't l let my dog cheat the bank? Even when coming back to me?

So, does your dog know to cheat the bank when going against the current and line when it is with the current?

[jehler]

So...I am hunting a river with some current...I shouldn't l let my dog cheat the bank? Even when coming back to me?

my dog would build a levy to divert the flow for the retrieve

[assateague]

I'm beginning to suspect my dog will talk me into retrieving the duck myself, through chicanery and dirty looks.

[Bootlipkiller]

So...I am hunting a river with some current...I shouldn't l let my dog cheat the bank? Even when coming back to me?

my dog would build a levy to divert the flow for the retrieve

Sent from an undisclosed location on the river

[Rick]

"Cheating" was invented out of either human navigational frailty or a desire to justify the trial judging expediency of using lines as a unit of measure, or both. But dogs certainly don't need protractors and straightedges to make extremely difficult marks. To the contrary, there are any number of real world scenarios where the dog trying not to cheat is more likely to be distracted from its mark. Not to mention wasting time and energy that could be better applied to new opportunities.

(The original "pro" rant was lost on me, too, but that mess was going in too many directions for me to keep up.)

[one2many]

this isnt a troll. i want to know what you pros think that is so hard to train a lab or chessie? this stems from corncob on that other site.
you guys act like its such a hard thing. pointer guys feel the same way.the versatile crew does do more then the last two.
you guys act like you are gods among men. when it isnt in anyway remotely close to training a stock dog or a service dog.yet them trainers dont go tooting their own horns,and sticking up for each other by telling someone how many trophies or ribbons they or someone else has.
all you guys training new pups(aaron and jim) this is not directed to you, you guys are doing it yourself like it should be and your pups are doin a damn fine job.
do the pros exaggerate the difficulty just to slob on each others knobs, and keep simple minded people cutting them checks for easy money?

There is some awfully broad statements here. If you want to address these guys you are talking about then do it over on the site you are referring to or better yet in person you know kinda like grown men do... But I will try to answer some of your questions or false statements and I can only speak for myself not any other trainers.

Whats so hard about training a retriever? I guess that is dependent on what you want your end product to be and the dog the client brings you. Time is what makes it hard for most amatures and is still an issue for most pros. Efficiency in training is everything. Some people simply do not have the patients, know how, property and equipment to do it efficiently and get the end result they want on their own. Most people also want to see there dog reach it's full potential and think that is going to be easier to accomplish using a pro. What is your issue with other people campaigning their dogs and how does that affect you? It's their dogs and their business. Pro's run tests and trials simply because it's their job. The client brings you a dog and tells you their goals for that dog and you work from before sunrise to well after sunset to make that happen. Being a good pro is not "easy money". Here's an easy days work for you.
530am- feed, air dogs and clean kennels
630am- obedience and FF on those dogs needing it.
830am- load dogs head to rounds and run land marks
1200pm- grab lunch ( maybe but usually don't have time)
1230pm -pick up and move to water for dogs (decheated and swim by)
200 pm- pick up and move again run water marks
500 pm- pick up and head to drill field (FTP, T, TT, pattern blinds)
6oopm - Pick up and head to new grounds for dogs running cold blinds.
800pm - feed put dogs away.
830pm- obedience and FF for those dogs needing it.
1030pm- air dogs
1100pm- done with the easy days work of course after texts and emails to clients are returned.
Forgot to add in time for meeting with visiting clients, running dogs to the vet, repairing and maintaining equipment and having a family. Why do it? Because most of us find it to be a very rewarding job and we enjoy it. Probably because its such "easy money"
How many hours a week do you work and how many days off do you have? We get a weekend too but that's for campaigning dogs for clients in those awful hunt tests you know nothing about and hate so much.. Who's bragging and slobbing knobs? Driving home from tests the last couple weekends my dashboard has been covered in ribbons, haven't heard a damn word have you? If you have something against pros, don't use them. It is a service just the same as having your oil changed or sending your kid to school, you could do both of those on your own as well... But if you think it's "easy money" you have in fact had one2many..

did i step on your toes a bit. i stopped reading when you sugested i do this face to face like REAL MEN.not a path you want to walk down son

he's got a point, and I'll walk down any road, I ain't skeered

i expect nothing nothing less from you
and i have a point to. they all run around slurping at each other. i guess i just get sick of it. all i hear at the country club each and every time i go there. i hear it at the archery or at the bars and cafes that are open early as shit serving breakfast. its yuppies stroking so and so and its trainers doing the same thing.
just get tired of it.they are no better then anyone one else. you guys are selling yourselves short and putting to much stock into what trainers do.any pro wants to bring his dogs to the farm and do half the shit mine do i would kindly apologize openly here and anywhere.
Jehler is welcome to swing by anytime as well.
FYI for the people that dont know i have more then plenty enough dogs

[one2many]

Ahh yeah, don't you have a strawberry long haired retriever?

It's a strawberry water spaniel but we all know they must be reminded to breath and thus cannot be considered real dogs.


Sent from an undisclosed location on the river

She is a cutie though!!!

Wanna cross breed her with my lab and post the Pups up on DHC?

Sent from my LG-L38C using Tapatalk 2

Eric please refrain from calling my dog a girl, it really hurts his feelings.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379366546.191001.jpg

Sent from an undisclosed location on the river

he looks sad

[one2many]

No dog works as hard as an English lab

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379361859.290836.jpg

you having english bred dog disqualifies you from this thread, since you dont need to train them

[one2many]

530am- feed, air dogs and clean kennels
630am- obedience and FF on those dogs needing it.
830am- load dogs head to rounds and run land marks
1200pm- grab lunch ( maybe but usually don't have time)
1230pm -pick up and move to water for dogs (decheated and swim by)
200 pm- pick up and move again run water marks
500 pm- pick up and head to drill field (FTP, T, TT, pattern blinds)
6oopm - Pick up and head to new grounds for dogs running cold blinds.
800pm - feed put dogs away.
830pm- obedience and FF for those dogs needing it.
1030pm- air dogs
1100pm- done with the easy days work of course after texts and emails to clients are returned.
Forgot to add in time for meeting with visiting clients, running dogs to the vet, repairing and maintaining equipment and having a family. Why do it? Because most of us find it to be a very rewarding job and we enjoy it. Probably because its such "easy money"
How many hours a week do you work and how many days off do you have? We get a weekend too but that's for campaigning dogs for clients in those awful hunt tests you know nothing about and hate so much.. Who's bragging and slobbing knobs? Driving home from tests the last couple weekends my dashboard has been covered in ribbons, haven't heard a damn word have you? If you have something against pros, don't use them. It is a service just the same as having your oil changed or sending your kid to school, you could do both of those on your own as well... But if you think it's "easy money" you have in fact had one2many..

Matt even on my days off i work. i rarely put in less then 100 hours a week. and your list you put up there. i dont clean my kennels i pay a guy that cleans them out everyday. as for the rest a bunch of my dogs are with me from 5 Am when i start work until bedtime. part of my dogs are working day and night 365. i do almost all my vet work,and i have clients i have to deal with all day long.i know well about hunt test and field trials. my father has run top pointers and britts my entire life competing all over mounted and unmounted alike. i also have a family and spend as much time in the gym with my daughter as i can.

[one2many]

did i step on your toes a bit. i stopped reading when you sugested i do this face to face like REAL MEN.not a path you want to walk down son

Hey Bud you are the one whining at your keyboard and talking out of your ass about something you know nothing about not me. You haven't stepped on my toes. I've walked down enough nasty paths all over the globe, yours is not one I'm concerned with... Just continue whining and expressing your opinions based on your vast internet forum education.[/quote]
this is where you are wrong i know it been around it my whole life.....spent my own own time in the sandbox from the spring of 90 until the spring of 92
you dont know me or what i do, but make statements as to my knowledge on training dogs.its a pretty good chance im feeding more then you.

[jehler]

they

I think that's the problem, you paint with a brush that broad your bound to get paint on the wrong board

[one2many]

Most of the time when a dog runs the bank is not running on the bank because he doesn't like the water or its easier he is running on the bank because its faster. at the end of the day the dog that runs and swims straight lines works less than a dog that cheats and runs all over the place.

Is it easier for a dog to run a bank or to swim? So swimming is easier on a dog than running?

if my one bmc could swim better i wouldnt need a lab. he sometimes tries to eat them. oh well he is a hog dog and hasnt been trained to retrieve or no OB just pure grit and balls that became a great hunting dog for doves and field hunting ducks and geese

[one2many]

they

I think that's the problem, you paint with a brush that broad your bound to get paint on the wrong board

yes i do and its a fault.