Honestly curious on your opinion

[Redbeard]

Not butt hurt. Enlightened

[Bootlipkiller]

Oh shit! Here we go again!

That's a tough one Doc. The stepdad's life was saved. But yes it is a free country.

Pops entering the building coulda put firefighters lives in danger trying to save him as well.

On the other hand, the news story the next morning would've read "last night local fire and police officials allowed a man to enter a home engulfed in flames. The man perished as fire personnel stood by and watched without making an attempt to save him. The local district attorney is filing charges against all fire and police official on scene. The case is currently under review."

I'm with Red on this one, by stopping the guy from entering the building they did exactly what they are trained to do. If they let the step dad in then decide they need to go rescue him as well then at least two firefighters have to enter the structure. With two more ready to go at the door if they go down. As hard as it is there is really no winning in a situation like this.

If they already decided they weren't going to enter for the kid, why would they suddenly need to enter because someone else ran in?

I'm not a cop, but I can't imagine that they are trained for situations like this. I'm sure that the LEO's can argue that other training they have recieved can be applied here, but I find it hard to believe that this situation is covered in the academy.

I don't like that the guy wasn't allowed to make an attempt to go in, but on the other hand, I believe that most law enforcement agencies use the motto "To protect and serve". If that's accurate, then I would say that the cop was protecting the dad, and you could make an argument that he was trained to do just that...

I'm not sure how to feel about this one. Prayers for the family involved, and thankful that it wasn't something that I was involved in from either side.

The situation changes when he enters. If it's bad enough they wont let firefighters in there is little chance the dad will make it more than a few steps in before he collapses from smoke inhalation, left to die or require rescuing.

So what? If I want to die, that's my business. Maybe the guy didn't want to live with that guilt. Who cares? Protect people from others, not themselves. I'm a firm believer in self-determination and social Darwinism. Quit throwing monkey wrenches into them both.

There's a Chinese proverb that says if you save a man's life, you are responsible for him. We like to think that they would owe you, but I'm with the Chinamen on this one. If he gets drunk 6 days a week because of the burden of guilt, repeatedly bears his wife in a drunken stupor, then kills 4 kids in a DUI crash after drinking all night, who'd they really help? Don't go saving someone's life that doesn't want to be saved unless you're ready to take responsibility for them forever.

Well said Assa you nailed it. The cops should have asked him if he wanted to die before tazing him. If he said yes let him go, if he says no taze him. Seems like common sense to me!

[Redbeard]

You're never too old to learn new tricks. Or repent for your sins

[Olly]

Amen. I'm on board

Sarcasm for anyone just tuning in.

I really am sorry I got you all riled up Red, and I'm even more sorry you think I'm bashing the cops here.

I'm bashing the role we as a culture have put our police into.

[3legged_lab]

Just fuckin typical! A doctor stirs up some shit, then poof, gone like a fart in the wind.

[Bootlipkiller]

I'm sensing a little west coast butt hurt.

No, butt hurt was Rick C who left the forum because Jehler was playing around a little. I think me and red are experiencing a major change in our world view!

[Redbeard]

No sarcasm here at all. And not riled up either. Completely at peace. Work will be weird for awhile until I get it figured out though

[Redbeard]

I'm sensing a little west coast butt hurt.

No, butt hurt was Rick C who left the forum because Jehler was playing around a little. I think me and red are experiencing a major change in our world view!

hopefully he comes to his senses soon. I always liked that guy

[Bootlipkiller]

No sarcasm here at all. And not riled up either. Completely at peace. Work will be weird for awhile until I get it figured out though

That's why I'm just not going anymore! It's like office space.

[waterfowlman]

After everything I've read here tonight......I'm looking forward to the coming anarchy.

[Olly]

hopefully he comes to his senses soon. I always liked that guy

He hasn't logged back in since Jehler ran him off.

[Redbeard]

No sarcasm here at all. And not riled up either. Completely at peace. Work will be weird for awhile until I get it figured out though

That's why I'm just not going anymore! It's like office space.

unfortunately I have 5 kids to feed so I can't quit. But I'll think twice before I violate someone's rights. That I can guarantee

[Bootlipkiller]

I'm sensing a little west coast butt hurt.

No, butt hurt was Rick C who left the forum because Jehler was playing around a little. I think me and red are experiencing a major change in our world view!

hopefully he comes to his senses soon. I always liked that guy

Seemed nice enough. Didn't he donate the traveler?

[rebelp74]

I'm sensing a little west coast butt hurt.

No, butt hurt was Rick C who left the forum because Jehler was playing around a little. I think me and red are experiencing a major change in our world view!

Seriously, what'd I miss with that? Oh yea, on the last sentence, smart ass!

[Redbeard]

After everything I've read here tonight......I'm looking forward to the coming anarchy.

there won't be anarchy. The good in people will prevail

[Redbeard]

hopefully he comes to his senses soon. I always liked that guy

He hasn't logged back in since Jehler ran him off.

that's too bad. He was a cool dude. And the duck carving forum needed him

[Bootlipkiller]

After everything I've read here tonight......I'm looking forward to the coming anarchy.

I don't think you will have to worry about anarchy Rick. The people can take care of themselves. Without fear of consequences the nation will flourish and prosper once again.

[Bootlipkiller]

I'm sensing a little west coast butt hurt.

No, butt hurt was Rick C who left the forum because Jehler was playing around a little. I think me and red are experiencing a major change in our world view!

Seriously, what'd I miss with that? Oh yea, on the last sentence, smart ass!

My poor reading comprehension is showing again. I don't know what you're talking about.

[Olly]

This is the kind of vibe I'm getting from you two right now. No joke and it's kind of scaring me.

police_state_by_tshansen.jpg

[The Duck Hammer]

hopefully he comes to his senses soon. I always liked that guy

He hasn't logged back in since Jehler ran him off.

I noticed that too. I tried sending him a pm and it wouldn't go through. He was a hell of a nice guy when I met him getting the RCP.

[The Duck Hammer]

I'm sensing a little west coast butt hurt.

No, butt hurt was Rick C who left the forum because Jehler was playing around a little. I think me and red are experiencing a major change in our world view!

Seriously, what'd I miss with that? Oh yea, on the last sentence, smart ass!

My poor reading comprehension is showing again. I don't know what you're talking about.

You mad about that comment too?

[ManlyMan]

Just fuckin typical! A doctor stirs up some shit, then poof, gone like a fart in the wind.

look guys, we can all agree on something, this is Obama's fault.

[rebelp74]

I'm sensing a little west coast butt hurt.

No, butt hurt was Rick C who left the forum because Jehler was playing around a little. I think me and red are experiencing a major change in our world view!

Seriously, what'd I miss with that? Oh yea, on the last sentence, smart ass!

My poor reading comprehension is showing again. I don't know what you're talking about.

I missed the Rick C/ Jehler thing and you're a smart ass. That's the best I got bro, I'm pretty lit at the moment.

[Bootlipkiller]

I'm sensing a little west coast butt hurt.

No, butt hurt was Rick C who left the forum because Jehler was playing around a little. I think me and red are experiencing a major change in our world view!

Seriously, what'd I miss with that? Oh yea, on the last sentence, smart ass!

My poor reading comprehension is showing again. I don't know what you're talking about.

You mad about that comment too?

No I really have poor reading comprehension sometimes. I can't spell for shit all the time!

[Feelin' Fowl]

After everything I've read here tonight......I'm looking forward to the coming anarchy.

I don't think you will have to worry about anarchy Rick. The people can take care of themselves. Without fear of consequences the nation will flourish and prosper once again.

Ok Trolls...what does this have to do with letting someone try to take care of their family?

I believe that the officer involved acted on what he thought was right. I can't fault him for that. It's part of being a human. What you as people, even though you're cops, should understand and give in to, is that there are situation in which things may have been better if there were no interference by LEOs.

Noone is saying that there shouldn't be cops, or that you should drive by the granny that just called for help. Take the cop hat off, and put yourself in that guy's shoes.

Red, if your kids were in a burning house, would you be satisfied jsut standing by watching it burn to the ground because a cop told you that you're not allowed to go into YOUR HOUSE, to save YOUR KIDS, because they said so? Boot, feel free to replace kids, with GadwallGetter to apply the anology to yourself.

You should understand that people have feelings, and that emotion is going to come out while responding to stories like this.

Unfortunatly cops are a necessary part of our country and the world. Noone (except Olly) is going to say otherwise. It's unfortunate, but true. It would be great if we didn't need cops. Everyone would be much better off, but that's not where we're at. We should also be able to agree that there are times, normally when acting upon emotion, that a cop has made the wrong move. Still doesn't mean that we don't need them...just shows that they're human.

Embrace my avatar!

[RonE]

Oh shit! Here we go again!

That's a tough one Doc. The stepdad's life was saved. But yes it is a free country.

Pops entering the building coulda put firefighters lives in danger trying to save him as well.

On the other hand, the news story the next morning would've read "last night local fire and police officials allowed a man to enter a home engulfed in flames. The man perished as fire personnel stood by and watched without making an attempt to save him. The local district attorney is filing charges against all fire and police official on scene. The case is currently under review."

I'm with Red on this one, by stopping the guy from entering the building they did exactly what they are trained to do. If they let the step dad in then decide they need to go rescue him as well then at least two firefighters have to enter the structure. With two more ready to go at the door if they go down. As hard as it is there is really no winning in a situation like this.

If they already decided they weren't going to enter for the kid, why would they suddenly need to enter because someone else ran in?

I'm not a cop, but I can't imagine that they are trained for situations like this. I'm sure that the LEO's can argue that other training they have recieved can be applied here, but I find it hard to believe that this situation is covered in the academy.

I don't like that the guy wasn't allowed to make an attempt to go in, but on the other hand, I believe that most law enforcement agencies use the motto "To protect and serve". If that's accurate, then I would say that the cop was protecting the dad, and you could make an argument that he was trained to do just that...

I'm not sure how to feel about this one. Prayers for the family involved, and thankful that it wasn't something that I was involved in from either side.

The situation changes when he enters. If it's bad enough they wont let firefighters in there is little chance the dad will make it more than a few steps in before he collapses from smoke inhalation, left to die or require rescuing.

So what? If I want to die, that's my business. Maybe the guy didn't want to live with that guilt. Who cares? Protect people from others, not themselves. I'm a firm believer in self-determination and social Darwinism. Quit throwing monkey wrenches into them both.

There's a Chinese proverb that says if you save a man's life, you are responsible for him. We like to think that they would owe you, but I'm with the Chinamen on this one. If he gets drunk 6 days a week because of the burden of guilt, repeatedly bears his wife in a drunken stupor, then kills 4 kids in a DUI crash after drinking all night, who'd they really help? Don't go saving someone's life that doesn't want to be saved unless you're ready to take responsibility for them forever.

Someone probably consulted the Book of Changes before denying the stepfather entry into the burning building to try to either save the stepchild or kill himself. I wonder if the yarrow sticks got burned up in the fire.

[Bootlipkiller]

I'm sensing a little west coast butt hurt.

No, butt hurt was Rick C who left the forum because Jehler was playing around a little. I think me and red are experiencing a major change in our world view!

Seriously, what'd I miss with that? Oh yea, on the last sentence, smart ass!

My poor reading comprehension is showing again. I don't know what you're talking about.

I missed the Rick C/ Jehler thing and you're a smart ass. That's the best I got bro, I'm pretty lit at the moment.

Oh! Well cliffs notes is Jehler was just joking around and Rick took him serious before anyone could explain Jehler's sense of humor to him.

And what an ugly thing to say.

[Redbeard]

hopefully he comes to his senses soon. I always liked that guy

He hasn't logged back in since Jehler ran him off.

I noticed that too. I tried sending him a pm and it wouldn't go through. He was a hell of a nice guy when I met him getting the RCP.

what's the rcp?

[Redbeard]

This is the kind of vibe I'm getting from you two right now. No joke and it's kind of scaring me.

police_state_by_tshansen.jpg

because that's how we all were brainwashed and trained

[Olly]

Noone (except Olly) is going to say otherwise.

You couldn't be further from the truth and I've said many times here that a society needs law and order.

LET ME STATE THIS ONE LAST TIME FOR THE RECORD BOOKS. I DON'T HATE COPS AND I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANARCHY.