For DnB...AKA Rex schools WFF thread...

[R. Chapman]

Rex, if you wouldn't mind, could you post each award individually with a little explanation?

Each Cartridge?! Holy fuck that would take forever.

Actually, this is something that would interest me. Maybe not every cartridge, but perhaps the more rare/little known ones.

I also have no idea why the cases were cold. It's something I'm going to look into.

[sws002]

10 grains of Blue Dot with 53 grain bullet in 223 at 100 yards was pretty cool, literally. I could have a shell get warm being in my pocket, then shoot the bastard and pull it out immediately and it's cold to the touch. I'm guessing Velocity somewhere between 2,100 and 2,300 I'd guess. About like a 22 Hornet. I'm figuring 11 is MAX with a 50-55 grain pill. Shooting these loads was actually really "cool". The barrel didn't even think about getting hot.

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Okay Rex, I'm gonna show my ass here (I don't know shit about reloading, except that eventually I need to get into it), but if 10 grains of Blue Dot leaves your casings cool to the touch and only runs you around 2300 fps, why the hell would 11 grains be MAX?

Because that's when pressures start peaking after 11 grains. Keep in mine that if I were loading a big rifle or something, a small charge like 10-11 grains is like 50 grains to 60 grains of powder in a big rifle. Like a 10 gr difference. Now the pressure signs I use mainly if hard bolt lift, and primers flattening out and enlarge the primer pocket. That's when I know it's way too much overload. Another thing I do on Remington style bolt faces is looking for a mark left from the ejector pin on the base of the case. This also means you have excessive pressure and should back off till you see no mark. Hope this helps out.

Once again, mostly clueless here. I understand the warning signs, but would a 10% increase in powder in something performing at about at about 2/3 of its potential really put you at max levels? Most 55 grain factory loads run around 3200 fps, so I would imagine you could squeeze out close to 3400 with the right loads, possibly more. I know that the relationship of powder to performance isn't linear and that it takes exponentially more powder to see increased results, it just seems a little minute to me.

[R. Chapman]

It also depends on the type of powder you use. I was using basically a pistol powder (which is not recommended). Pistol powders are generally flaky. They also burn faster than ball or stick powders. So what happens is they reached their peak pressure too quick that it doesn't have time to speed up that little pill. You generally use a slower burning powder to get high speeds. I don't care much about speed. I am more after the best accuracy than anything.

[AKPirate]

Expertly said

[huntall6]

10 grains of Blue Dot with 53 grain bullet in 223 at 100 yards was pretty cool, literally. I could have a shell get warm being in my pocket, then shoot the bastard and pull it out immediately and it's cold to the touch. I'm guessing Velocity somewhere between 2,100 and 2,300 I'd guess. About like a 22 Hornet. I'm figuring 11 is MAX with a 50-55 grain pill. Shooting these loads was actually really "cool". The barrel didn't even think about getting hot.

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Okay Rex, I'm gonna show my ass here (I don't know shit about reloading, except that eventually I need to get into it), but if 10 grains of Blue Dot leaves your casings cool to the touch and only runs you around 2300 fps, why the hell would 11 grains be MAX?

Because that's when pressures start peaking after 11 grains. Keep in mine that if I were loading a big rifle or something, a small charge like 10-11 grains is like 50 grains to 60 grains of powder in a big rifle. Like a 10 gr difference. Now the pressure signs I use mainly if hard bolt lift, and primers flattening out and enlarge the primer pocket. That's when I know it's way too much overload. Another thing I do on Remington style bolt faces is looking for a mark left from the ejector pin on the base of the case. This also means you have excessive pressure and should back off till you see no mark. Hope this helps out.

Once again, mostly clueless here. I understand the warning signs, but would a 10% increase in powder in something performing at about at about 2/3 of its potential really put you at max levels? Most 55 grain factory loads run around 3200 fps, so I would imagine you could squeeze out close to 3400 with the right loads, possibly more. I know that the relationship of powder to performance isn't linear and that it takes exponentially more powder to see increased results, it just seems a little minute to me.

I don't know about rifles, but with .45auto, one grain makes a huge difference in recoil (and I assume, velocity). I started with 4grains and my gun felt like a 9mm. Went up to 5 and it kicks pretty similar to factory loads, a little lighter. But with some other powders, they call for 7 grains for a start load. I bet rifles are similar in tweakability (<word of the day )

[R. Chapman]

Oh yes, rifle loads can be tweaked tremendously. Now I go through a more rigorous process to find an accurate load than most people care to. Here's my routine for brass prep.

I first start off with Depriming /Resizing.

Then find the shortest length piece of brass and set my case trimmer up to trim all the other pieces to that length.

After I have done that, I chamfer the inside of the case mouth and debur the outside.

After that I cut the primer pockets flat.

I then make sure all of the the flashholes are the same in diameter using a flashole reamer tool.

Next I debur the flashole from the mouth of the case and the base of the case.

If necessary, sometimes I will neck turn the necks of cases, especially those that use different cartridge brass to form what you shoot, for instance, I use Winchester .270 Win. brass to make .25-06 Remington brass, the necks are a hair too thick though so I have have to thin the neck.


Now load development, I go to my manuals and find three powders that fill the case the most per my manual and work up a max load with each powder using the hottest primer I can find to use. Using the bullet I plan to shoot, I load up 10 shells with each powder that I loaded to max in my rifle and I shoot them over a chronograph to see which powder has the least variance in velocity. So let just say that with my rifle and the max load I found in the 3 different powder, H4831 has the least variance in velocity. Lets say that charge was 54.5 grains of powder. Now what I'm going to do is start 10% below that, so I'm going to start doing load development in 1 grain increments. So something like this:

49.5 50.5 51.5 52.5 53.5 54.5 +A few fouler shots

I will load five shells with each powder charge plus 3 shells as fouler shots to foul the barrel (Make sure you start load development with a clean barrel!). Now take those loaded rounds to your range and see which powder charge did the best out of those. So lets just say the 52.5 grains of H4831 did the best out of those 1 grain increment strings. Now I will clean the barrel really well (It's recommended that you clean your rifle barrel every 20-30 shots). Now I will do half a grain increment below what shot the best out of the 1 grain increment, and half a grain above. My test loads would look something like this:

52 52.5 53 +A few fouler shots

Again I will load 5 shells with each powder charge and some foulers and shoot them. So now lets say that 53 grains did better than the other two, Now I go 2/10ths of a grain above and below that charge to see which one is going to shine. Make sure to first clean your barrel again. The test loads will look something like this:

52.8 53 53.2 +A few fouler shots

Now if you think it is necessary, you can go 1/10th of a grain above and below the last string of load development that you just did ( I find it unnecessary most of the time). But if you do decide, lets say 53.2 shot the best of the last string, go 1/10 below and above that charge. Make sure to clean your barrel. Load 5 shells with each charge. Looks like this:

53.1 53.2 53.5 +A few fouler shots

Now that you have a powder charge established, Start messing with different primers. I generally just start with standard primers, no match or magnums. So I load 5 shells each using different primer with a powder charge of 53.2 (best powder charge). Make sure to clean the barrel. It looks like this.

CCI 200 Remington 9.5 Winchester LR Federal 210 +A few foul shots

Now lets say the federals shot the best, being that is a standard federal primer, I will try the three other types of primers from Federal. Once again, clean the barrel. It will look like this:

Federal 210 Federal 210M (Match) Federal 215 (Magnum) Federal 215M (Magnum Match) +A few foul shots

So lets say the 215 Federals shot the best, now you will clean your barrel and start messing with seating depths of the bullet. Now if your bullet and your barrel permits it, you can seat those bullets to where they touch the lands of the rifling. Here's How I do it:
Loading 5 of each length(Make sure you measure the length of your bullet before setting up your seating die and stem!).

0.000" off the lands

0.005" off the lands

0.010" off the lands

0.015" off the lands

0.020" off the lands

0.025" off the lands

+A few foul shots

So lets say that 0.010" off the lands of the rifling shot the best, now I start messing with neck tension on the bullet. After cleaning my barrel, it looks like this:

0.002" Neck Tension

0.004" Neck Tension

0.006" Neck Tension

0.008" Neck Tension

0.010" Neck Tension

+A few fouler shots. Now lets say I have established which neck tension shot the best (Lets say .008"), now you are done. Make sure you right down what shot the best so for this load, it would look like this.

.25-06 Remington
Winchester Brass
53.2 Grains of H4831
Federal 215 Primer
0.010" off the lands
0.008" Neck Tension
COAL 3.479" ( Whatever the length of the loaded round is after after finding the lands distance, make sure to measure the length of the bullet!).

That's how I develop loads for my rifles. It's a rigorous but rewarding process.

[RonE]

10 grains of Blue Dot with 53 grain bullet in 223 at 100 yards was pretty cool, literally. I could have a shell get warm being in my pocket, then shoot the bastard and pull it out immediately and it's cold to the touch. I'm guessing Velocity somewhere between 2,100 and 2,300 I'd guess. About like a 22 Hornet. I'm figuring 11 is MAX with a 50-55 grain pill. Shooting these loads was actually really "cool". The barrel didn't even think about getting hot.

image.jpg

image.jpg

image.jpg

Okay Rex, I'm gonna show my ass here (I don't know shit about reloading, except that eventually I need to get into it), but if 10 grains of Blue Dot leaves your casings cool to the touch and only runs you around 2300 fps, why the hell would 11 grains be MAX?

Because that's when pressures start peaking after 11 grains. Keep in mine that if I were loading a big rifle or something, a small charge like 10-11 grains is like 50 grains to 60 grains of powder in a big rifle. Like a 10 gr difference. Now the pressure signs I use mainly if hard bolt lift, and primers flattening out and enlarge the primer pocket. That's when I know it's way too much overload. Another thing I do on Remington style bolt faces is looking for a mark left from the ejector pin on the base of the case. This also means you have excessive pressure and should back off till you see no mark. Hope this helps out.

Once again, mostly clueless here. I understand the warning signs, but would a 10% increase in powder in something performing at about at about 2/3 of its potential really put you at max levels? Most 55 grain factory loads run around 3200 fps, so I would imagine you could squeeze out close to 3400 with the right loads, possibly more. I know that the relationship of powder to performance isn't linear and that it takes exponentially more powder to see increased results, it just seems a little minute to me.

I don't know about rifles, but with .45auto, one grain makes a huge difference in recoil (and I assume, velocity). I started with 4grains and my gun felt like a 9mm. Went up to 5 and it kicks pretty similar to factory loads, a little lighter. But with some other powders, they call for 7 grains for a start load. I bet rifles are similar in tweakability (<word of the day )

Going from 4gr to 5gr is a 25% increase which is usually a tremendous amount when reloading anything except pistol cartridges.
Rifle cartridges, because of the powder types will not usually stand up to that amount of increase. Usually the "Maximum" loads listed in the books can be exceeded in certain rifles and not reached in other rifles because of the chamber/bolt design of the particular rifle. I had a rifle would push a 180 gr bullet 3050 - 3100 fps at about 2 grains below the book Max but would flatten primers, make breech opening and shell extraction almost impossible with a 1 grain increase (still one gr below max).

Rex's quest for the perfect load for his rifles is what you need to do but something that I have never had the desire or patience to spend the time doing so I don't reload any rifle cartridges except one.

[R. Chapman]

It's an even bigger deal in a pistol case going up one grain. Like I've said before that's like a 10 grain difference in a larger case (rifle).

[The Duck Hammer]

Oh yes, rifle loads can be tweaked tremendously. Now I go through a more rigorous process to find an accurate load than most people care to. Here's my routine for brass prep.

I first start off with Depriming /Resizing.

Then find the shortest length piece of brass and set my case trimmer up to trim all the other pieces to that length.

After I have done that, I chamfer the inside of the case mouth and debur the outside.

After that I cut the primer pockets flat.

I then make sure all of the the flashholes are the same in diameter using a flashole reamer tool.

Next I debur the flashole from the mouth of the case and the base of the case.

If necessary, sometimes I will neck turn the necks of cases, especially those that use different cartridge brass to form what you shoot, for instance, I use Winchester .270 Win. brass to make .25-06 Remington brass, the necks are a hair too thick though so I have have to thin the neck.


Now load development, I go to my manuals and find three powders that fill the case the most per my manual and work up a max load with each powder using the hottest primer I can find to use. Using the bullet I plan to shoot, I load up 10 shells with each powder that I loaded to max in my rifle and I shoot them over a chronograph to see which powder has the least variance in velocity. So let just say that with my rifle and the max load I found in the 3 different powder, H4831 has the least variance in velocity. Lets say that charge was 54.5 grains of powder. Now what I'm going to do is start 10% below that, so I'm going to start doing load development in 1 grain increments. So something like this:

49.5 50.5 51.5 52.5 53.5 54.5 +A few fouler shots

I will load five shells with each powder charge plus 3 shells as fouler shots to foul the barrel (Make sure you start load development with a clean barrel!). Now take those loaded rounds to your range and see which powder charge did the best out of those. So lets just say the 52.5 grains of H4831 did the best out of those 1 grain increment strings. Now I will clean the barrel really well (It's recommended that you clean your rifle barrel every 20-30 shots). Now I will do half a grain increment below what shot the best out of the 1 grain increment, and half a grain above. My test loads would look something like this:

52 52.5 53 +A few fouler shots

Again I will load 5 shells with each powder charge and some foulers and shoot them. So now lets say that 53 grains did better than the other two, Now I go 2/10ths of a grain above and below that charge to see which one is going to shine. Make sure to first clean your barrel again. The test loads will look something like this:

52.8 53 53.2 +A few fouler shots

Now if you think it is necessary, you can go 1/10th of a grain above and below the last string of load development that you just did ( I find it unnecessary most of the time). But if you do decide, lets say 53.2 shot the best of the last string, go 1/10 below and above that charge. Make sure to clean your barrel. Load 5 shells with each charge. Looks like this:

53.1 53.2 53.5 +A few fouler shots

Now that you have a powder charge established, Start messing with different primers. I generally just start with standard primers, no match or magnums. So I load 5 shells each using different primer with a powder charge of 53.2 (best powder charge). Make sure to clean the barrel. It looks like this.

CCI 200 Remington 9.5 Winchester LR Federal 210 +A few foul shots

Now lets say the federals shot the best, being that is a standard federal primer, I will try the three other types of primers from Federal. Once again, clean the barrel. It will look like this:

Federal 210 Federal 210M (Match) Federal 215 (Magnum) Federal 215M (Magnum Match) +A few foul shots

So lets say the 215 Federals shot the best, now you will clean your barrel and start messing with seating depths of the bullet. Now if your bullet and your barrel permits it, you can seat those bullets to where they touch the lands of the rifling. Here's How I do it:
Loading 5 of each length(Make sure you measure the length of your bullet before setting up your seating die and stem!).

0.000" off the lands

0.005" off the lands

0.010" off the lands

0.015" off the lands

0.020" off the lands

0.025" off the lands

+A few foul shots

So lets say that 0.010" off the lands of the rifling shot the best, now I start messing with neck tension on the bullet. After cleaning my barrel, it looks like this:

0.002" Neck Tension

0.004" Neck Tension

0.006" Neck Tension

0.008" Neck Tension

0.010" Neck Tension

+A few fouler shots. Now lets say I have established which neck tension shot the best (Lets say .008"), now you are done. Make sure you right down what shot the best so for this load, it would look like this.

.25-06 Remington
Winchester Brass
53.2 Grains of H4831
Federal 215 Primer
0.010" off the lands
0.008" Neck Tension
COAL 3.479" ( Whatever the length of the loaded round is after after finding the lands distance, make sure to measure the length of the bullet!).

That's how I develop loads for my rifles. It's a rigorous but rewarding process.

Damn that's a lot of work.

[R. Chapman]

Now think about what one2many does for competition BR.

[Feelin' Fowl]

Now think about what one2many does for competition BR.

Fills his bowl, and watches others do it for him?

[R. Chapman]

Now think about what one2many does for competition BR.

Fills his bowl, and watches others do it for him?

[aunt betty]

My shooting range is a slough where the fire pit is. Will load my pistol up with whatever the fuck is cheap and empty a beer can. The can gets tossed into the slough. I put a round through the can and shoot it again just as its about to sink thus exploding the can and punching it down into the water.
That's what I call Arkansasfun.

[aunt betty]

Probably should mention the beer gets emptied into me. After about six or seven beers I start having to reload a lot more frequently.

[R. Chapman]

I'll get these out of the way.

105MM
30mm
25mm
Idk MM

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[Eric Haynes]

I'll get these out of the way.

105MM
30mm
25mm
Idk MM

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20mm. Look at the primer on it. Should be an impulse primer.

[Tiler_J]

My shooting range is a slough where the fire pit is. Will load my pistol up with whatever the fuck is cheap and empty a beer can. The can gets tossed into the slough. I put a round through the can and shoot it again just as its about to sink thus exploding the can and punching it down into the water.
That's what I call Arkansasfun.

That's what we call littering.

[Bulldog0156]

My shooting range is a slough where the fire pit is. Will load my pistol up with whatever the fuck is cheap and empty a beer can. The can gets tossed into the slough. I put a round through the can and shoot it again just as its about to sink thus exploding the can and punching it down into the water.
That's what I call Arkansasfun.

That's what we call littering.

littering and....

[Eric Haynes]

My shooting range is a slough where the fire pit is. Will load my pistol up with whatever the fuck is cheap and empty a beer can. The can gets tossed into the slough. I put a round through the can and shoot it again just as its about to sink thus exploding the can and punching it down into the water.
That's what I call Arkansasfun.

That's what we call littering.

No wonder you get arrested down there.

[R. Chapman]

Here's the rifle portion of my cartridge collection.

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[AKPirate]

Here's the rifle portion of my cartridge collection.

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No personal message sign?

[R. Chapman]

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[AKPirate]

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I feel so much better

[R. Chapman]

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I feel so much better

[AKPirate]

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I feel so much better

Nice avatar!

[R. Chapman]

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I feel so much better

Nice avatar!

I thought it would fit in nicely lol, thanks for resizing that for me!

[AKPirate]

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I feel so much better

Nice avatar!

I thought it would fit in nicely lol, thanks for resizing that for me!

Your welcome

[R. Chapman]

Don't let MT see that you spelled "you're" incorrectly.

[AKPirate]

[R. Chapman]

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Here's the pistols, it isn't near as big as the rifles.