Random Pictures

[R. Chapman]

Got enough solar panels on there. Shit!

[Olly]

I lied about being done with it. I wasn't happy with the solar panels, not real enough. Whipped these bad boys up. Modeled after a Renogy 100W panel.

solar_shed.png

[SpinnerMan]

Got enough solar panels on there. ****!

Depends on the question of the purpose. If it is just to keep a bunch of batteries charge as a backup that you never really expect to use, then there are probably too many. At 1.5kW peak, you'd probably be lucky to get 0.4 kW average, so you are providing about 3500 kW-hr of electricity per year, which is about $300 worth per year around here. Of course, if your fellow tax payers foot all the cost of the shed, it's free money to you just like every other welfare program.

[Olly]

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Solar shed. This is fun, will design some batteries to go in there too.

You can get paid good money to do that shit.

Go look at some of the stuff the pros do it's crazy.

[Olly]

Depends on the question of the purpose. If it is just to keep a bunch of batteries charge as a backup that you never really expect to use, then there are probably too many. At 1.5kW peak, you'd probably be lucky to get 0.4 kW average, so you are providing about 3500 kW-hr of electricity per year, which is about $300 worth per year around here. Of course, if your fellow tax payers foot all the cost of the shed, it's free money to you just like every other welfare program.

That's a pretty dim view of solar power. Yes it's still true that for a "normal" residential house hold in the U.S. solar is still not viable but a system of that size would be more than on the large size for an off grid cabin for recreation. Or if you were not an energy hog and didn't have a TV in every room or keep your house at 68* 24/7 it could support a small off grid house. Lots of people do it.

[SpinnerMan]

That's a pretty dim view of solar power.

That doesn't even start to touch how dim of a view that I have of solar power. Other than for niche applications, it is insanely expensive, wasteful, and likely destructive way to produce electricity and a significant scale.

Or if you were not an energy hog

Why the need to resort to liberal name calling?

How can you be an energy hog anyways? Are you stealing it from someone else? Is there a finite quantity that must be rationed by the government? Are we limited to our fair share as defined by you and Obama?

I believe in freedom which means doing whatever floats your boat as long as you foot the bill for it.
You want to live by yourself in a 10,000 square foot mansion and keep it at 65 in the summer and 85 in the winter or you want to live in a tent

As long as you don't expect me to foot one penny of your life style choice. Solar is a life style choice, which is fine, but not when the taxpayers and ratepayers are forced to pick up the lion's share of the cost of that choice. If they didn't, there would be almost none of this crap because it is insanely expensive. How much does your shack cost to build? How much to maintain? How does that compare to a propane, fuel oil, or some other system if you want to get off the grid, if that is something of great value to you?

This is very personal to me because it is fucking up everything that I have spent my life trying to improve. Two weeks I go to a meeting at MIT that is essentially focused on how to fix the mess that is created by a massive expansion of wind and solar. This should be interesting because the religion of the day doesn't even dare to contemplate that the best thing to do is not build this stupid shit in the first place. It's just taken as a fact and we are to try and figure out how to solve the mess that it creates. Tremendous resources are being wasted to try and deal with this worthless shit.

Lots of people do it.

Lots of people do things that I think are really fucking stupid, that's freedom.

[Olly]

That's a pretty dim view of solar power.

That doesn't even start to touch how dim of a view that I have of solar power. Other than for niche applications, it is insanely expensive, wasteful, and likely destructive way to produce electricity and a significant scale.

Or if you were not an energy hog

Why the need to resort to liberal name calling?

How can you be an energy hog anyways? Are you stealing it from someone else? Is there a finite quantity that must be rationed by the government? Are we limited to our fair share as defined by you and Obama?

I believe in freedom which means doing whatever floats your boat as long as you foot the bill for it.
You want to live by yourself in a 10,000 square foot mansion and keep it at 65 in the summer and 85 in the winter or you want to live in a tent

As long as you don't expect me to foot one penny of your life style choice. Solar is a life style choice, which is fine, but not when the taxpayers and ratepayers are forced to pick up the lion's share of the cost of that choice. If they didn't, there would be almost none of this crap because it is insanely expensive. How much does your shack cost to build? How much to maintain? How does that compare to a propane, fuel oil, or some other system if you want to get off the grid, if that is something of great value to you?

This is very personal to me because it is fucking up everything that I have spent my life trying to improve. Two weeks I go to a meeting at MIT that is essentially focused on how to fix the mess that is created by a massive expansion of wind and solar. This should be interesting because the religion of the day doesn't even dare to contemplate that the best thing to do is not build this stupid shit in the first place. It's just taken as a fact and we are to try and figure out how to solve the mess that it creates. Tremendous resources are being wasted to try and deal with this worthless shit.

Lots of people do it.

Lots of people do things that I think are really fucking stupid, that's freedom.

When in the heck did I ever say tax payers should pay for it? I never once said that. Calm yourself my friend, I like the idea of solar, wind, and water power on small personal scale. It's interesting to me and if I ever settle down I will use it in my daily life. Never once did I say anything about tax payers paying for it. Only that it can be useful.

Geezz

[Goldfish]

That's a pretty dim view of solar power.

That doesn't even start to touch how dim of a view that I have of solar power. Other than for niche applications, it is insanely expensive, wasteful, and likely destructive way to produce electricity and a significant scale.

Or if you were not an energy hog

Why the need to resort to liberal name calling?

How can you be an energy hog anyways? Are you stealing it from someone else? Is there a finite quantity that must be rationed by the government? Are we limited to our fair share as defined by you and Obama?

I believe in freedom which means doing whatever floats your boat as long as you foot the bill for it.
You want to live by yourself in a 10,000 square foot mansion and keep it at 65 in the summer and 85 in the winter or you want to live in a tent

As long as you don't expect me to foot one penny of your life style choice. Solar is a life style choice, which is fine, but not when the taxpayers and ratepayers are forced to pick up the lion's share of the cost of that choice. If they didn't, there would be almost none of this crap because it is insanely expensive. How much does your shack cost to build? How much to maintain? How does that compare to a propane, fuel oil, or some other system if you want to get off the grid, if that is something of great value to you?

This is very personal to me because it is fucking up everything that I have spent my life trying to improve. Two weeks I go to a meeting at MIT that is essentially focused on how to fix the mess that is created by a massive expansion of wind and solar. This should be interesting because the religion of the day doesn't even dare to contemplate that the best thing to do is not build this stupid shit in the first place. It's just taken as a fact and we are to try and figure out how to solve the mess that it creates. Tremendous resources are being wasted to try and deal with this worthless shit.

Lots of people do it.

Lots of people do things that I think are really fucking stupid, that's freedom.

Just trying to fix a problem that is yet to come when you are utilizing a finite resource. It may not be the best option, but what is? If you were in charge, and all the oil dried up, every bit of propane used, no more natural gas, what would you have power the world?

[SpinnerMan]

When in the heck did I ever say tax payers should pay for it?

When did I say that you said they should?

Maybe you are the one that needs to calm down.

Only that it can be useful.

Hamsters on a treadmill with a generator can be useful if you do not consider the costs.

BTW, I actually agreed that it can be useful in niche applications, maybe at the extreme it could provide 0.1% of our energy needs efficiently.

I was explaining my very dim view of solar. I have no problem if you wish to make this life style choice or any other one, but for the vast majority of people it is a life style choice and not about providing electricity in the most efficient, safe, and reliable manner.

However, I still think if you lay down your goals, what is it that you are trying to do without any regard to how to achieve those goals. Then consider ALL alternatives that would satisfy those goals that the idea of solar, wind, and water on a personal scale will look like a bad idea to achieve your personal objectives. I would hope as an out of the box thinker you would not get caught up in this current fad, which is all that it is. If you aren't careful, you'll be telling us how you like the idea of a Prius and a vegan lifestyle.

The first part of designing the best system is to clearly define what you are trying to do before you even start to figure out how you will do it. I know you were just playing with software and wanted to learn how to use the software. If you were designing something real, I want solar panels is NOT the starting point that is unless you simply want them so that you can keep up with the Jones's. I want electricity is not always a high enough level to really start your project, but it may well be. Then the question is how much, how reliable, other attributes that you value (e.g., being off the grid if that has value for you), and once you understand what you really want (not an easy task ordinarily), then you start to look at the potential solutions that will satisfy what you really want.

[The Duck Hammer]

That's a pretty dim view of solar power.

That doesn't even start to touch how dim of a view that I have of solar power. Other than for niche applications, it is insanely expensive, wasteful, and likely destructive way to produce electricity and a significant scale.

Or if you were not an energy hog

Why the need to resort to liberal name calling?

How can you be an energy hog anyways? Are you stealing it from someone else? Is there a finite quantity that must be rationed by the government? Are we limited to our fair share as defined by you and Obama?

I believe in freedom which means doing whatever floats your boat as long as you foot the bill for it.
You want to live by yourself in a 10,000 square foot mansion and keep it at 65 in the summer and 85 in the winter or you want to live in a tent

As long as you don't expect me to foot one penny of your life style choice. Solar is a life style choice, which is fine, but not when the taxpayers and ratepayers are forced to pick up the lion's share of the cost of that choice. If they didn't, there would be almost none of this crap because it is insanely expensive. How much does your shack cost to build? How much to maintain? How does that compare to a propane, fuel oil, or some other system if you want to get off the grid, if that is something of great value to you?

This is very personal to me because it is fucking up everything that I have spent my life trying to improve. Two weeks I go to a meeting at MIT that is essentially focused on how to fix the mess that is created by a massive expansion of wind and solar. This should be interesting because the religion of the day doesn't even dare to contemplate that the best thing to do is not build this stupid shit in the first place. It's just taken as a fact and we are to try and figure out how to solve the mess that it creates. Tremendous resources are being wasted to try and deal with this worthless shit.

Lots of people do it.

Lots of people do things that I think are really fucking stupid, that's freedom.

Just trying to fix a problem that is yet to come when you are utilizing a finite resource. It may not be the best option, but what is? If you were in charge, and all the oil dried up, every bit of propane used, no more natural gas, what would you have power the world?

Easy, nuclear.

[Olly]

Easy, nuclear.

Exactly! Everyone should get their own personal sized Nuclear power plant! Together on WFF we can solve any problem.

[Deltaman]

Spinner, I'm curious and have often wondered why we can't use a magnifying glass of sorts, above the solar panels to increase the sunlight ray's power. And if not directed at solar panels because of heat intensity, maybe used as a source for heating a boiler to use as maybe steam power? I have been very interested in photovoltaic energy over the past few years myself, and this solution seems too simple, but has piqued my curiosity............your thoughts? Is storage the issue?

[The Duck Hammer]

Easy, nuclear.

Exactly! Everyone should get their own personal sized Nuclear power plant! Together on WFF we can solve any problem.

Exactly.

[ohioduck]

Easy, nuclear.

Exactly! Everyone should get their own personal sized Nuclear power plant! Together on WFF we can solve any problem.

Exactly.

No cant do that. Next thing you know RMFC has Nuclear capabilities and he becomes Rex Muthafuckn Jung ill and blows up Idaho.

[Weston81]

Easy, nuclear.

Exactly! Everyone should get their own personal sized Nuclear power plant! Together on WFF we can solve any problem.

Exactly.

No cant do that. Next thing you know RMFC has Nuclear capabilities and he becomes Rex Muthafuckn Jung ill and blows up Idaho.

..........but seriously, don't give him a nuclear plant

[The Duck Hammer]

Easy, nuclear.

Exactly! Everyone should get their own personal sized Nuclear power plant! Together on WFF we can solve any problem.

Exactly.

No cant do that. Next thing you know RMFC has Nuclear capabilities and he becomes Rex Muthafuckn Jung ill and blows up Idaho.

I want super powers motherfucker! If my truck was powered by a mini nuclear reactor I could get the correct exposer. Don't step on my dreams dammit.

[ohioduck]

Easy, nuclear.

Exactly! Everyone should get their own personal sized Nuclear power plant! Together on WFF we can solve any problem.

Exactly.

No cant do that. Next thing you know RMFC has Nuclear capabilities and he becomes Rex Muthafuckn Jung ill and blows up Idaho.

I want super powers motherfucker! If my truck was powered by a mini nuclear reactor I could get the correct exposer. Don't step on my dreams dammit.

Hey it's not me I believe in Nuclear rights, but you should have to pass a background check. Rex Jung Ill wouldn't pass

[Flightstopper]

Used it to design a bar cabinet to hang over a table. Just used lines to draw the effect to convince the wife. Haven't figured out how to actually make a real model.

20150515_134421.jpg

[Flightstopper]

20150515_134421.jpg

[Flightstopper]

1431720795386.jpg

[Olly]

Spinner doesn't like my 1.5kW solar shed. I wonder if he will like my 3kW solar shed now with duck boat!

*I didn't make the duck boat or trailer, just found them online and added for effect.

3kW_solar_shed.png

[Olly]

1431720795386.jpg

Did you ever build it?

[Bad17]

Now it finished.

[Flightstopper]

1431720795386.jpg

Did you ever build it?

Drew it just now, haven't even had time to get out of the recliner yet

[Olly]

1431720795386.jpg

Did you ever build it?

Drew it just now, haven't even had time to get out of the recliner yet

I thought you meant you've used it in the past. Pretty cool huh?

[Flightstopper]

Sure is, first go round with it. Can't figure out how you're doing so much

[Olly]

Sure is, first go round with it. Can't figure out how you're doing so much

I read the instructions what are you stuck on? If you learn all the shortcuts it make it much easier.

[SpinnerMan]

Just trying to fix a problem that is yet to come when you are utilizing a finite resource. It may not be the best option, but what is? If you were in charge, and all the oil dried up, every bit of propane used, no more natural gas, what would you have power the world?

I missed that earlier. Only a fool tries to fix a problem that is centuries away. Even if it is only 100 years away, think how badly we would laugh at the people in 1915 if they were trying to solve our problems today. It's probably more like hundreds of years away, so now we are talking about Ben Franklin trying to solve our energy problems. Don't get me wrong, he was a smart fucking guy, but he would have needed a crystal ball to have any concept of what the issues are that far in the future and most things would be incomprehensible to him. It is truly a fool's errand.

We are doing so much harm because of our arrogance and ignorance as we pursue this fool's errand.

If I were in charge when oil dried up, which BTW it will NEVER dry up, we would have centuries of technology development and who the hell knows what technologies would exist. My wild-ass guess is that for electricity it will be primarily nuclear (the stuff I'm working on now). For transportation, it will be biofuels produced by some organism genetically modified to crap out crude oil. That synthetic crude will be refined in the same Exxon Mobile plant down the road that currently refines the stuff we used to get out of the ground. The reason the oil will never run dry is because we stopped doing it because it became cheaper to produce it synthetically with energy from nuclear power and/or solar. However, there is really no way to even comprehend what will transpire over that time frame. Our entire country may collapse and none of this matters.

Exactly! Everyone should get their own personal sized Nuclear power plant! Together on WFF we can solve any problem.

Nope, just buy what it is converted to like you do now. If you want liquid fuel, we can convert it to that. If you went electric power, we already do that. Who knows what it will be, but there is nothing to preclude you from getting liquid fuel that looks just like the stuff that you buy today that was created by converting nuclear energy into chemical energy and shipping it to you in a truck. Right now, it's way too fucking expensive and would be as stupid as using solar for more than the niche application, but by the time there would be an actual "need" for solar, who knows?

At that point the price of conventional fuels will have started to climb and the price of the alternatives may have fallen, possible to less than we pay today. When they cross, we make the switch. Who knows when that happens or how it is done?

Of course, if we force bad ideas onto society and the massive waste of resources that comes with it, it is far less likely that these things will be available in a timely manner. More important than that there will be needless suffering as we are all forced to over pay for power and are left with less resources for other things. Granted most of us are so wealthy that this will not have a lot of impact, but for those that are not, it is truly harmful.

I have no problem with society investing in technology development. I'd be a hypocrite if I did since that is a big part of what I do for a living. Energy being a particular important area to do that because it is so value and so important to improving our quality of life. We want to do our best to put them all on an equal playing field and let the chips fall where they may. They all have their place. Some it is a very small place and some a large place and over time the market will adjust and the new improved technologies will displace the old and everything will work itself out just fine.

The playing field is not even close to being level. This is one of the biggest problems. The entire system suffers from past and present efforts to rig the game. We need to fix that more than anything and the rest will take care of itself.

Freedom really does work.

[Olly]

Going to make some shelves soon for the shed that I actually do have.

shelf_8ft.png

[SpinnerMan]

Going to make some shelves soon for the shed that I actually do have.

shelf_8ft.png

How are you going to stabilize it?

I put cross braces for my simple free-standing wooden shelves. Just screwed or nailed, it won't be that stable.