Pedigree

[banknote]

So I'm all excited about this new Golden litter I'm in line to pick from, but I just got a look at the pedigrees and I'm concerned about the fact that the Sire's father is the Dam's grandfather. This seem sub-optimal to me, if not downright irresponsible, but I don't know much about these things. The breeder comes highly recommended by multiple sources who know hunting Goldens. Thoughts?

[Redbeard]

I'd talk to Boot. He hunts with an inbred golden

[3legged_lab]

Dogs don't care, they'll hump anybody.

[jarbo03]

Line breeding is not uncommon among some breeds.

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[Matt Duncan]

That's not close enough to be concerned with at all. Some line breedings are A LOT closer than that. Generally if its an exceptional dog that's a proven producer and the health clearances are good is where you see that in a pedigree. Seem to notice it more in goldens, chessies and flatcoats as the gene pool of actual nice field dogs is much smaller and if there is a real stand out in the breed some folks want to keep as much as those genes going as possible. So that dog was either a really nice dog or just a dog that was willing to breed. If the health clearances check out and it is actually a decent FIELD breeding I wouldn't be bothered by it one bit. There have been many very nice field dogs that were the product of very close line breeding. What's the dogs reg name?

[Bootlipkiller]

I'd talk to Boot. He hunts with an inbred golden

My dog didn't come from sire's or dames he came from his grandpa and grandma. He was also bred in a backyard.

I'm a non Alpha and am of no help in this conversation.

[banknote]

That's not close enough to be concerned with at all. Some line breedings are A LOT closer than that. Generally if its an exceptional dog that's a proven producer and the health clearances are good is where you see that in a pedigree. Seem to notice it more in goldens, chessies and flatcoats as the gene pool of actual nice field dogs is much smaller and if there is a real stand out in the breed some folks want to keep as much as those genes going as possible. So that dog was either a really nice dog or just a dog that was willing to breed. If the health clearances check out and it is actually a decent FIELD breeding I wouldn't be bothered by it one bit. There have been many very nice field dogs that were the product of very close line breeding. What's the dogs reg name?

Thanks for the response. This makes me feel a lot better about it.
Name is Sungold Big Timber (GRCA Outstanding Sire.)

[Matt Duncan]

Here is some info on him. http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=111555 http://sungold.trieven-sungold.com/studs/timber.html

Looks like he was a nice dog the breeder wanted to keep in their breeding program. So looks like you've got 2 of a good thing. He's produced a few Master Hunters and some dogs with some JAMs and surely some good gun dogs as well.. He is also a very good looking dog to boot. Good luck with your puppy!

[banknote]

Here is some info on him. http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=111555 http://sungold.trieven-sungold.com/studs/timber.html

Looks like he was a nice dog the breeder wanted to keep in their breeding program. So looks like you've got 2 of a good thing. He's produced a few Master Hunters and some dogs with some JAMs and surely some good gun dogs as well.. He is also a very good looking dog to boot. Good luck with your puppy!

Thanks, Matt.

[one2many]

if its someone that dont know what they are doing its inbreeding if its someone thats a master of animal husbandry its line breeding
that breeding isnt too close
i have a few line breed animals around

[aunt betty]

My dog has the same grand-sire on both sides. That grand-sire is also the great-grandsire on one side which means he was bred with one of his offspring. (probably an accident)

I was concerned about this and found it's not a big deal and this sort of thing happens all the time but NOT with females.
If the dog has the same grand-dam and a similar pedigree to my dog except being the grand-dam and great-grand-dam should be avoided.

Not an expert at all but that's what the expert told me.

[banknote]

Thanks for the reassurances. Definitely getting stoked. Pick up week after next.

[Tomkat]

I wouldn't worry about the in breeding as much as the vicious and aggressive nature of these so called Golden's. We all know how bad they are with strangers and children. You better check your home owners policy up to date.

I love Golden's. You better post lots of puppy pictures!!



Sent from an undisclosed location in central Kansas.

[Bootlipkiller]

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1365220504.532634.jpg

Savage beast.

[jarbo03]

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1365220504.532634.jpg

Savage beast.

Scary! Must be lookin for a baby.


Wait, that's Goldies dog.

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[Tomkat]

See! I told you they were mean!!


Sent from an undisclosed location in central Kansas.

[banknote]

The second one from the right's got killer written all over him. Gonna hit Petsmart for a pincher chain and muzzle this weekend.

[Tomkat]

Those are nice looking dogs.

Have you trained a retriever before? Are these out of a hunting line of Goldens?

[Goldfish]

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1365220504.532634.jpg

Savage beast.

Scary! Must be lookin for a baby.


Wait, that's Goldies dog.

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uploadfromtaptalk1365259990468.jpg

Almost trained and ready for the ring

sent from a phancy fone

[banknote]

Those are nice looking dogs.

Have you trained a retriever before? Are these out of a hunting line of Goldens?

They're from field lines that go back 35+ years. Here's breeder's info page:
http://sungold.trieven-sungold.com/aboutus.html

I assisted my dad in training our first golden, when I was 7-8 years old, for field trialling and hunting, and he was an outstanding dog. As a puppy he was high point retriever in Western New York, I think in '78 or thereabouts. We only ran him one more year after that, but hunted him his whole life. Since then I've really only trained for obedience, which with my background included a lot of field type handling, but not actual hunting/trialling. I stopped hunting for about 15 years and have just been back to it for the last 5-6 years. So I know I have a lot to learn, but really want to do it myself. I am lucky to have some friends more experienced in field training who are generous with offers for help.

I have never used electronics and I am determined not to start. Knowing goldens, I really don't think it will be necessary, unless I hit some major obstacles. Snake training is one place I could see it being useful.

I work from home and have a lot of flex time, so I will be in near constant contact with the pup. Can't wait!

[Bootlipkiller]

Those are nice looking dogs.

Have you trained a retriever before? Are these out of a hunting line of Goldens?

They're from field lines that go back 35+ years. Here's breeder's info page:
http://sungold.trieven-sungold.com/aboutus.html

I assisted my dad in training our first golden, when I was 7-8 years old, for field trialling and hunting, and he was an outstanding dog. As a puppy he was high point retriever in Western New York, I think in '78 or thereabouts. We only ran him one more year after that, but hunted him his whole life. Since then I've really only trained for obedience, which with my background included a lot of field type handling, but not actual hunting/trialling. I stopped hunting for about 15 years and have just been back to it for the last 5-6 years. So I know I have a lot to learn, but really want to do it myself. I am lucky to have some friends more experienced in field training who are generous with offers for help.

I have never used electronics and I am determined not to start. Knowing goldens, I really don't think it will be necessary, unless I hit some major obstacles. Snake training is one place I could see it being useful.

I work from home and have a lot of flex time, so I will be in near constant contact with the pup. Can't wait!

I will agree totally with the fact you won't need electronics with a golden. Didn't need a collar until I started training the wife's lab.

[Eric Haynes]

Those are nice looking dogs.

Have you trained a retriever before? Are these out of a hunting line of Goldens?

They're from field lines that go back 35+ years. Here's breeder's info page:
http://sungold.trieven-sungold.com/aboutus.html

I assisted my dad in training our first golden, when I was 7-8 years old, for field trialling and hunting, and he was an outstanding dog. As a puppy he was high point retriever in Western New York, I think in '78 or thereabouts. We only ran him one more year after that, but hunted him his whole life. Since then I've really only trained for obedience, which with my background included a lot of field type handling, but not actual hunting/trialling. I stopped hunting for about 15 years and have just been back to it for the last 5-6 years. So I know I have a lot to learn, but really want to do it myself. I am lucky to have some friends more experienced in field training who are generous with offers for help.

I have never used electronics and I am determined not to start. Knowing goldens, I really don't think it will be necessary, unless I hit some major obstacles. Snake training is one place I could see it being useful.

I work from home and have a lot of flex time, so I will be in near constant contact with the pup. Can't wait!

I will agree totally with the fact you won't need electronics with a golden. Didn't need a collar until I started training the wife's lab.

Using electronics is soley based on breed.

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[banknote]

Using electronics is soley based on breed.

Can you expand on this? I am sincerely interested in what you mean.

[jehler]

Should have got an English lab, no training necessary, born hunters

[Bootlipkiller]

Using electronics is soley based on breed.

Can you expand on this? I am sincerely interested in what you mean.

He's being a smart ass!

[Bootlipkiller]

Should have got an English lab, no training necessary, born hunters

Agreed! Lol

[banknote]

Using electronics is soley based on breed.

Can you expand on this? I am sincerely interested in what you mean.

He's being a smart ass!

Got me! I guess that's why it didn't make any sense.

[Bootlipkiller]

Using electronics is soley based on breed.

Can you expand on this? I am sincerely interested in what you mean.

He's being a smart ass!

Got me! I guess that's why it didn't make any sense.

Eric believes golden's are an inferior breed. My statement must have been misunderstood as golden's are better then labs. I don't believe this and it was not what I was trying to say. Banknote knows I'm sure that golden's are eager to please there owner. When a golden dose something wrong you don't need to be heavy handed for discipline. Raising your voice or giving them the look is all that's needed most times and is enough to correct the problem. Their need to please the master outweighs their instinct to be the predator with most golden's.

The lab I own will break sometimes and there is no calling her off till she has decided she's coming back. She has more drive and if she loses it and takes off she don't give a shit if you pissed or not. My experience is labs are stronger willed dogs.

[Eric Haynes]

Using electronics is soley based on breed.

Can you expand on this? I am sincerely interested in what you mean.

He's being a smart ass!

Got me! I guess that's why it didn't make any sense.

Eric believes golden's are an inferior breed. My statement must have been misunderstood as golden's are better then labs. I don't believe this and it was not what I was trying to say. Banknote knows I'm sure that golden's are eager to please there owner. When a golden dose something wrong you don't need to be heavy handed for discipline. Raising your voice or giving them the look is all that's needed most times and is enough to correct the problem. Their need to please the master outweighs their instinct to be the predator with most golden's.

The lab I own will break sometimes and there is no calling her off till she has decided she's coming back. She has more drive and if she loses it and takes off she don't give a shit if you pissed or not. My experience is labs are stronger willed dogs.

I was being a smartass:lol: no two dogs are the same, regardless of breed.

I think you are still misinterpretting me on my stance on goldens. I love them and I would own one if there was even a half assed breeder close...but there isn't. I'm not going to buy a dog that is guaranteed to have dysplasia and thats what you will get for buying a golden around here...and its no different for labs. Fortunately, there is one or two breeders within the state for a lab with certs which is why I own one. If poodles were the only thing close that had certs, I would own one instead. Im just in it for a good life for the dog on top of being a hunter.

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[Bootlipkiller]

Your right every dog is different. And each breed has common character traits that are present in most but not all dogs of that breed. Just agreeing with banknote on his observation that in his experience you don't need a e collar for golden's.