Loyalty?

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Loyalty?

Postby assateague » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:02 am

This may seem like an odd, question, and perhaps I'm not phrasing it the right way. But I'll do my best to explain where I'm going with it.

I'm picking up a pup in July, if the breeding has "taken" (still waiting on word). I know the majority of you guys with dogs also have wives and kids in the house. My concern is the repetition of the training program I'm going to use, and even the obedience training. It's all well and good to say "get everybody in the house on the same page", but realistically that's not going to happen with a 6 year old, teenager, and a hard-headed wife whom I love dearly. Will it be close to consistent? Yep. Will it be perfectly consistent? Some days. But I suspect that overwhelmingly the dog will get different treatment from each member.

This will be a family pet first and foremost, and a hunter second. Even if I had the best, most perfectly trained hunter in the world, he wouldn't stay around long if he couldn't be a pet as well. (Just so you know where I'm coming from) My concern is that each person may put a little different "spin" on something, primarily basic obedience, and what they let the pup "get away with" when it's just them with the dog. My question is, is it realistic to expect the dog to know the difference between how I tell him something and how my 6 year old may tell him the same thing? I don't care what he does with the other members (as long as it is acceptable dog behavior- obviously, I don;t want him acting like a misbehaved hellion with them, just because they aren't me) as long as he "gets it" when it's me and him going to work, so to speak.

Any tips on the best way to handle this would be appreciated. I'm already making it as "fun" for them as possible, i.e. watching Fowl Dawgs together so they can at least see what I'm going for, although some things may be lost in the translation. I will be consistent. But as anybody with a family knows, to expect 100% consistency across the board within a family is probably unrealistic. I know all pups refuse at times, and test their limits at times. How would I best know if this is what's going on, or if he's genuinely confused by some sort of contradicting commands and expectations I'm not even aware of? Reagrdless of anything else which goes on, I want him to listen to me, when he's with me, but I don't know if this is unrealistic given the circumstances I've described.

If this has been answered before (and I'm sure guys like Matt have had to deal with something like this hundreds of times), sorry for being repetitious. I don't venture into dog forums much, other than to argue about mutts :lol: When searching for info on this, 100% of the time the responses/info seem to be "get everybody on the same page". While that's all well and good as far as advice goes, everybody knows that shit just doesn't happen. As cheap as I am, I really want this dog to turn out "right", and not just be a bump on a log to keep The Dingo company. Still got some time left, and trying to stay ahead of the curve.

Thanks!
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Re: Loyalty?

Postby NuffDaddy » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:17 am

I have a 3 year old English setter. When we were training her me and my dad did most if not all the work. We didn't let her "get away" with much. My mom and brother were more of the "come here Lucy...come on" kind of people. No matter how many times we wold them it's "Lucy come" they never would do it. She never got confused with commands and would always come to "Lucy come". However, she doesn't mind to well for my mom and brother even if they use the proper commands because they never enforced them and very seldom even used them when she was a pup. So if your family members don't use proper commands all the time it shouldn't mess her/him up for whoever uses the proper commands. The dog might just not listen to well to whoever isn't stern and consistent with it. That's just my experience with the past 2 setters we've had.
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Re: Loyalty?

Postby assateague » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:20 am

That's what I'm hoping for. If he knows he can "get away" with more with the others, I'll do what I can to fix that. But I want to make sure he listens to me. Like you guys know, when he's hunting, the obedience and training is a whole 'nother story than when he's being told to sit to get a pat on the head in the living room. But if I tell him to sit to get a pat on the head in the living room, I expect him to mind me as I trained him to mind, not how the teenager told him to mind. Just to make sure I'm not confused, that's what you're saying, right Nuff? That he minds you two, but the others not as well?
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Re: Loyalty?

Postby NuffDaddy » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:31 am

Yup. Because she knows if she doesn't listen to us its not going to be fun. If she doesn't listen to them she just gets to keep doing what she is doing. Pisses my mom off to no end when she doesn't listen. But my mom won't give the dog a little smack to show her who is boss so the dog doesn't respect her.
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Re: Loyalty?

Postby goodkarmarising » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:29 am

Ask my wife how well my dogs handle when I have to go tdy for a few days or a couple weeks and how well they mind her. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Soon as I get home, they flop down on the bed beside me, give out a big sigh and start to behave again. They know which people they can get over on and who they can't. Dogs know who the pack leader is and they will handle for you as well as you expect them to behave. Karma, my oldest dog is more of a one person dog and will handle in the field for me, but won't handle that great for others.
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Re: Loyalty?

Postby assateague » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:33 am

I'm liking what I'm hearing so far. This was a big concern of mine.
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Re: Loyalty?

Postby Eric Haynes » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:21 am

assateague wrote:I'm liking what I'm hearing so far. This was a big concern of mine.


Now that I have seen both sides of the spectrum, I will probably never own a male again. Mine is a dickhead. What the others are saying about loyalty is pretty spot on. Mine listen to me because I am the only one who is consistent with them.

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Re: Loyalty?

Postby assateague » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:36 am

I'll not have a female, because everyfuckingthing around this place is female and I'm tired of it. Family, cats, dog, horses, every fucking thing.
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Re: Loyalty?

Postby jarbo03 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:40 am

Nothing to worry about Jim

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Re: Loyalty?

Postby assateague » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:42 am

And truthfully, few things would give me greater joy than having the dog listen to nobody BUT me. Then they'd have a clue how I feel around this place when I tell them to do something :lol:
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Re: Loyalty?

Postby NuffDaddy » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:42 am

Eric Haynes wrote:
assateague wrote:I'm liking what I'm hearing so far. This was a big concern of mine.


Now that I have seen both sides of the spectrum, I will probably never own a male again. Mine is a dickhead. What the others are saying about loyalty is pretty spot on. Mine listen to me because I am the only one who is consistent with them.

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My first dog was a male Gordon setter. He was stubborn and bull headed. He was ranked the top dog through his obedience training with my dad. But as soon as you turn your back he was in trouble. He was a terrible garbage hound too. To the point where he ate several plastic bags because a little meat juice got on them. Popsicle wrappers anything. The week before we had him put down he could barely stand up or move. But he still managed to eat a bag of hotdog buns bag and all that we're sitting on the kitchen counter. :lol: The English setter is a much more mild mannered dog and is 2x the hunter. Don't know if it's just a personality thing or a gender thing, but I don't think I'll ever own a male dog either.
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Re: Loyalty?

Postby Tomkat » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:47 am

assateague wrote:I'll not have a female, because everyfuckingthing around this place is female and I'm tired of it. Family, cats, dog, horses, every fucking thing.


Screw that. I will never, EVER, have a male dog.

To answer your question,

Around my dog, the wife acts totally subserveiant to me. Yes its an act LOL but she is 100 % on board with every pack having one leader. Actually our deal is that my wife is # 2 and the dog is # 3. It all works out.

When she comes home from work and I am there, I make Brandy wait to come greet her. I come over to the wife, hug and kiss her, and then release Brandy. I run the show.
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Re: Loyalty?

Postby jarbo03 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:55 am

Nothing but male dogs for me, I'm more bull headed than they are. Never had any of them problems.


Jim, that was funny.:lol::lol::lol::lol:

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Re: Loyalty?

Postby Eric Haynes » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:00 pm

jarbo03 wrote:Nothing but male dogs for me, I'm more bull headed than they are. Never had any of them problems.


Jim, that was funny.:lol::lol::lol::lol:

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I think that is the problem with me. Too bull headed for a bull headed dog. He's getting the snip soon, hope it tones him down a little.

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Re: Loyalty?

Postby jarbo03 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:03 pm

Eric Haynes wrote:
jarbo03 wrote:Nothing but male dogs for me, I'm more bull headed than they are. Never had any of them problems.


Jim, that was funny.:lol::lol::lol::lol:

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I think that is the problem with me. Too bull headed for a bull headed dog. He's getting the snip soon, hope it tones him down a little.

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You'll chill as you get older. Way easier on Taz than I was my previous lab.

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Re: Loyalty?

Postby Flightstopper » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:27 pm

My experience is the some as nuff's. my male is also more timid and easy going than my female.
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Re: Loyalty?

Postby goodkarmarising » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:37 pm

Me, Jarbo and Tk have had the male versus female dog talk. Me and Jarbo are fans of male dogs, and TK will always have a female dog. To each their own. I personally have always gotten along better with male dogs. Even when I was a teenager I had a big 110ish lb male german shepherd that wouldn't listen to hardly anyone but me.
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Re: Loyalty?

Postby Flightstopper » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:08 pm

I don't think it comes down to male vs female as much as the personality of the dog and how it's raised. I've seen bad of both. Of course I haven't been around near as many dogs as Matt or other trainers.
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Re: Loyalty?

Postby Tomkat » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:23 pm

Agree with all of that, especially the matter of personal choice. I have had better experiences, historicaly, with female dogs. GKR and jarbo have dogs I like really well, they have both brought me birds from cold water. Karma has been especially friendly to me, ever since I made the mistake of playing stick games with him on a slow hunt. LOL

And Taz is an impressive young dog, lots of heart and drive. Skunk dog, we call him :D

But my choice is for a girl dog. I dont see a performance difference in either sex, and slight personality differences, but that is from dog to dog anyway.

A female can do anything a boy dog can do except piss all over your tires, etc.
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Re: Loyalty?

Postby assateague » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:32 pm

There is another factor- The Dingo is a female, and all the "knowledge" about them says that females will not take kindly to another female dog around. Although if I do end up with a female, The Dingo will mind her manners, or pay the piper.
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Re: Loyalty?

Postby jarbo03 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:45 pm

I think it has more to do with individual dog than the sex, have seen it go both ways. Be careful with the pup and the dingo, bad things can happen very fast with a pup and an old dog .

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Re: Loyalty?

Postby Tomkat » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:51 pm

Assateague,

You mention you are getting a dog, but don't mention the breed. labradoodle? Greyhouond? Poodle?

Whatcha got for Dixie?

I would think where you live it would be a CBR.........
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Re: Loyalty?

Postby FlintRiverFowler » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:42 pm

I'm actually having problems with this very thing right now assa. When I'm home the pup behaves. But I'm getting calls from my wife while I'm at work saying she won't listen. won't mind. She's digging under the fence. And just raising absolute hell while im gone. But when I get home she sits right next to me and does everything I ask.


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Re: Loyalty?

Postby assateague » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:45 pm

Tomkat wrote:Assateague,

You mention you are getting a dog, but don't mention the breed. labradoodle? Greyhouond? Poodle?

Whatcha got for Dixie?

I would think where you live it would be a CBR.........


Wirehaired Pointing Griffon. A distant relative of Taz, actually, I believe Jerry said.
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Re: Loyalty?

Postby assateague » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:45 pm

FlintRiverFowler wrote:I'm actually having problems with this very thing right now assa. When I'm home the pup behaves. But I'm getting calls from my wife while I'm at work saying she won't listen. won't mind. She's digging under the fence. And just raising absolute hell while im gone. But when I get home she sits right next to me and does everything I ask.


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That's not all bad. I'm scared of it being the other way. I've had to deal with Dingoes and horses not listening to a damn thing I say for years. Now it's her turn.
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Re: Loyalty?

Postby jarbo03 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:54 pm

assateague wrote:
FlintRiverFowler wrote:I'm actually having problems with this very thing right now assa. When I'm home the pup behaves. But I'm getting calls from my wife while I'm at work saying she won't listen. won't mind. She's digging under the fence. And just raising absolute hell while im gone. But when I get home she sits right next to me and does everything I ask.


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That's not all bad. I'm scared of it being the other way. I've had to deal with Dingoes and horses not listening to a damn thing I say for years. Now it's her turn.

Still funny

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Re: Loyalty?

Postby Tomkat » Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:34 pm

assateague wrote:
Tomkat wrote:Assateague,

You mention you are getting a dog, but don't mention the breed. labradoodle? Greyhouond? Poodle?

Whatcha got for Dixie?

I would think where you live it would be a CBR.........


Wirehaired Pointing Griffon. A distant relative of Taz, actually, I believe Jerry said.


One of those dogs retrivied the first mallard I ever shot. He has the same heart and drive as Taz, but more energy (yes Jerry, more) and is a bit more willfull than Taz. That WPG did very well in dock diving contest's. He is still around, but his owner got a younger dog that is less hyper he hunts with now.
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Re: Loyalty?

Postby Matt Duncan » Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:42 pm

Just involve the family in the training. It may take a sit down with everyone to discuss what is acceptable and what isn't. Involve them in training as much as you can. teach the dog a task and once he gets it then show the wife and kids what to do and let them train as well. It's important not to have everyone out there while he's learning to avoid distractions and confusion for him. When you get done with collar conditioning have the family take turns one on one with him running him through OB while you watch from somewhere out of view from the dog with the transmitter so you can make corrections as needed. He will quickly learn that a command is a command and he has to follow it beit from you or your 6 year old kid. Most important thing is gonna be the family meeting and everyone needs to know to never give a command that you can't enforce and that while he's young everyone needs to be consistent with him. Best thing is getting the kids involved. This Sunday I watched my 5 year old boy heel around and "train" a male Chessie that's much bigger than him. Got to say it was heartwarming to watch. Saturday my son and 7 year old daughter run their first hunt test and I'm sure I'll be a proud papa watching that too! BTW May I ask what the breeding is?
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Re: Loyalty?

Postby assateague » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:59 pm

The sire is Shingobee Lake Honey Boy and the Dam is Granite Peak Amy. Let me know if that's not exactly what you wanted- I'm a bit new to the pedigreed dog deal :lol:
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Re: Loyalty?

Postby Matt Duncan » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:50 am

assateague wrote:The sire is Shingobee Lake Honey Boy and the Dam is Granite Peak Amy. Let me know if that's not exactly what you wanted- I'm a bit new to the pedigreed dog deal :lol:


I was just curious if I knew the breeding or the sire or dam and I don't..
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